Chapter 2: The Fates
The Ancient Greeks believed the lives of all creatures were pre-determined, mapped out by three goddesses on a divine loom (which is NOT the same as a spinning wheel). Today, the question of destiny and fate as a lot more layers. Darien (she/her) and DJ (he/him) discuss how our idea of The Fates is different today and come up with their own interpretation of the Modern Fates (Spoiler alter: One interpretation is way cooler than the other).
Spoilers for Supernatural, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, DC's Legends of Tomorrow, Hadestown, Disney's Hercules, The Chronicles of Prydain, and Vertigo's Sandman.
Content Warning: This episode contains mention of death and near-death experiences.
About Us
Podcast of Poseidon was created, co-hosted, and produced by Darien and DJ Smartt.
Our music is "Athens Festival" by Martin Haene. Our cover art is by Audrey Miller. Find her on Instagram @bombshellnutshellart
Find us @PoscastOfPoseidon on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Find all of our episodes and episode transcripts at PodcastOfPoseidon.com
Transcript
DJ 0:00
I mean, if you've seen Maleficent you've seen a loom comparative to a human.
Darien 0:04
That's a spinning wheel.
DJ 0:05
That's, that's pretty much.
Darien 0:07
No,
DJ 0:07
that's what they're doing. They're making threads.
Darien 0:09
No a spinning know that they're weaving. They're not they're not making threads. They're,
DJ 0:13
they're fucking- they were making threads.
Darien 0:16
No that a spinning wheel and a loom are two different things. They already have the thread, they're putting it on the loom, and then they're weaving the tapestry of life and then they're cutting it when they're done. Fuck you
DJ 0:27
[Laughter]
Darien 0:50
welcome all mortals, monsters and myth-lovers alike. You're listening to Podcast of Poseidon where we explore ancient myths and a modern retellings while reading requirements Percy Jackson and the Olympians. This is Chapter Two, The Fates. I'm your co-host online from the Hunters of Artemis Darien Smartt. Joining me is my co host and brother hailing from Cabin Seven DJ.
DJ 1:10
How's everyone doing today? Cabin seven, if you don't know as Apollo, and he's pretty great.
Darien 1:14
Today we are talking about the fates. But first, I want to show you something that I found and sorry, listeners, you won't be able to see it. We'll post a picture on Instagram for you. I was cleaning my whole bedroom yesterday and digging through all my dresser drawers. And I found these.
DJ 1:28
Whoa!
Darien 1:29
Yeah. Did you want to tell them what I'm what I'm showing you?
DJ 1:32
That's logos for camp Half Blood and camp Jupiter?
Darien 1:35
Yeah.
DJ 1:36
It's pretty sick.
Darien 1:36
And they're not just like random stickers. They are actually from the release of blood of Olympus.
DJ 1:42
Oh, that's sick.
Darien 1:43
Yeah, I was working at Hastings at the time. These are freebies we're giving away and so I stole a bunch of them. I have to and I will get you one. As soon as I see you at some point.
DJ 1:52
At some point.
Darien 1:54
We're still in pandemic.
DJ 1:54
We live like five minutes away from each other, but like,
Darien 1:57
six months into pandemic, we're getting through it.
DJ 1:59
Yeah,
Darien 2:00
wear your mask. Wash your hands, everybody. But yeah, they're cute. We'll post them on Instagram. Again, our Instagram handle, if you don't know is at Podcast of Poseidon. So you should follow us because we post lots of memes really? Mostly Percy Jackson memes.
DJ 2:15
Yeah.
Darien 2:15
So today we are talking about the fates because those are the first kind of mythological thing Percy sees proper Aside from his teacher, but she shows up with her sisters later, we're going to do them all three at once. fates come first, the fates and their sock of an indeterminable size
DJ 2:34
sock of whether it's a big foot or Godzilla,
Darien 2:37
whether it's big foot or Godzilla.
DJ 2:38
They're just big ass socks.
Darien 2:40
So DJ, what do you know about the fates from Greek mythology?
DJ 2:44
I know very little of honestly, for the longest time I thought they were just like, there were three of them. So I thought they represented past present and future. That was not I was not right on
Darien 2:53
I also thought that until I researched today,
DJ 2:58
I found out that they're actually one of them spins the cloth of fate or the line of fate on their loom. Another person measures it and then the last person cuts it. And I'm like, okay, that makes sense. I also found out that they're in the Arrowverse did you
Darien 3:13
I did know that actually,
DJ 3:15
I found that out today. I've that's super fucking weird. But I guess DC does its own thing with Gods.
Darien 3:22
I mean, Hercules has been in the Avengers. So comic books, with everything, but which we are actually going to talk about the fate of the arrow verse today, when we get to the different ways we've retold stories about the fates, because honestly, that was what I found most interesting.
Darien 3:39
Yeah. So yeah, Davis, you're absolutely right. I also thought that they represented past present and future, which I suppose in a way they kind of do. But that's if you stretch it. I think the past present and future often comes from modern retellings of what the fates do.
DJ 3:56
Oh, yeah, for sure. I believe that.
Darien 3:58
But yeah, Davis, you nailed it on the head. The Fates. Actually a three goddesses and they each have a name, which I didn't know. Definitely just thought they were fates or the
DJ 4:06
I figure. They had a name. And I think was like the Moira
Darien 4:09
Moira right. Yeah, I thought that's just what they were.
DJ 4:11
Yeah, that's fair. I guess it's understand.
Darien 4:14
But no, we have Klotho. The spinner who, as Davis said, is the one that spins the thread of life on the loom, because she's the one that actually dictates how someone's life is going to play out. Then there was Atropos, the inflexible who uses the abhorrent shears to cut the thread as death. So she's the one that's like, and you're done.
DJ 4:33
Or it could be Eisah.
Darien 4:35
Well, mythology by Edith Hamilton, which is the book that I use to do most of my research onto the ancient myths of the fates says that it's Atropos so we're gonna listen to Ms. Hamilton.
DJ 4:46
I was on Wikipedia.
Darien 4:47
We're gonna listen to Ms. Hamilton.
Darien 4:49
They are the fates. three goddesses who control the destinies of all beings on are generally acknowledged to be the most powerful because not even Zeus or any of The gods can go against the will of the fates. When they say this will happen anything even a god does to try to prevent it is just playing into how things will eventually happen the way the fates decreed.
DJ 5:11
The fates are just they vibe with people's lives.
Darien 5:14
Yeah. And so I suppose whether or not what their morality is would honestly be up to interpretation, depending on who's telling the story. And who's feels that like goddesses weaving out fates for somebody is good or bad. I imagine some people might feel that this is very secure, their destiny is played out, they can do their best they can live the best life of what ever happens was truly meant to be. Whereas other people might be like, What? No, I control my destiny. I control my life. Like there's no divine power. It's very, that's a philosophy. That's
DJ 5:44
I got a fun mix of the both.
Darien 5:46
Yeah,
DJ 5:47
it's like some things are planned out. But what happens in the middle is a fuzzier
Darien 5:51
Interesting. Yeah, I personally don't really believe in any kind of like fate or destiny, perhaps I think what we define is like, Oh, this is fated this was meant to be really honestly just feels like the product of our own actions. If you were fated to meet the love of your life, did you work to become the kind of person that the love of your life would want to meet?
DJ 6:12
I mean, yeah,
Darien 6:14
if you get that job, well, did you work hard to present yourself and like, get through those obstacles? That's not to say that like, Oh, if bad things happen to you is because you didn't work hard enough. Like sometimes things are completely out of
DJ 6:24
Sometimes things just fucking stuck
Darien 6:25
Yeah, sometimes we're in corrupt systems that aren't really there to take care of everybody. It's a thing. But the fates, their backstory, I was actually really excited when I was reading about the fates backstory, because there were like three major ones, just from Greek mythology alone, and two were recorded by the same guy. So like, right off the bat, there's my whole my whole thesis for the podcast, which is, hey, if you're retelling these stories in a different way, it's okay. Because guess what? Even the Greeks were doing,
DJ 6:53
it wasn't like Homer.
Darien 6:54
It was Hesiod actually.
DJ 6:56
Okay. I think Homer has got his own story about them.
Darien 6:59
Yeah. So Hesiod was a gentleman who actually kind of first started really recording all of the Greek myths in his Theogony. Initially, when the fates are introduced, they're described as being Daughters of Nix, but later on Hesiod describes them as being Daughters of Zeus and the Titan thymus, which is really interesting, because when their daughters have Nix, they're really associated with death and night and the eternal forever, but will specifically with death, and when they become Daughters of like Zeus, and the Titaness, they are sisters to peace, and the seasons.
Darien 7:32
And like all these other goddesses, who are kind of goddesses of the inevitable, like seasons will change, kind of those things. That's super interesting. And in Orphic cosmology, the fates mother isPersephone. So even the Greeks were re mixing their stories.
Darien 7:49
in mythology by Edith Hamilton, there are a couple highlight moments of the fates that I found super cool. In these early myths, the fates don't usually play Super active main roles. They're not running around, like Zeus. They're not fucking people's lives, like Hera. They're just kind of, we said, and now we're gonna step out, but two of the things that I really liked one of them was when the fates appeared to Althea mother of Meleager to tell her that her son's life was attached to a piece of wood, and that he would live until the wood burns up. So specifically what the fate said was "to you, oh, newborn child, we grant a gift to live until this wood turns to ash." and so Althea ripped that bad boy out of the fireplace is like, okay, he's good, but later, like or kills her brothers in a rage, and she throws the wood back in the fire and he dies. The Greeks were
DJ 8:42
Greek
Darien 8:42
Greek
DJ 8:44
Hey!
Darien 8:44
Hey!
Darien 8:44
it's, it's the ancient Greeks
DJ 8:46
tragedy for all!
Darien 8:47
You're going to tragedy and you got a tragedy and you get two tragedies, and you're Hercules you get seven. Speaking of Hercules, he also has a story about well, he's tangentially involved in this particular story. It's really mostly about Apollo. And
DJ 9:01
yeah,
Darien 9:02
Apollo's what are
DJ 9:03
Can we talking about the Disney movie which he's constantly involved with the fucking fates.
Darien 9:08
Yeah we will talk about the Disney movie. Davis you're skipping ahead!
DJ 9:13
I figured we would being that's like the biggest piece of like media they're involved in now.
Darien 9:18
Super. Yeah. For Apollo Specifically, when Apollo was punished by Zeus and sent to live on earth as a human. He served in the House of Admetus and Apollo during that time, I heard that the fates had decided, well, Admetus was gonna die pretty soon and he was like, Oh, my bro. Potentially my lover like Apollo did what he wanted. Well, it depends on who's telling the story. I think Apollo is pretty cool.
DJ 9:41
Apollo's a chad.
Darien 9:43
The fates are about to cut Admetus' life. He convinced them to let somebody else take his place. And so Admetus who I decided sucks, just thought what a great deal and like went around trying to find volunteers and like Uh oh, my dad will definitely take this deal because he's old and he loves me. And his dad was like, No man. Everybody fears death even I fear death. I love you, but I'm not gonna willingly just die. Like the fates haven't said My life is over. And so eventually Eclectus. Admetus's wife volunteers.
Darien 10:00
Oh my fuck
Darien 10:14
yeah, and he lets her!
Darien 10:24
So she dies and he lives but you know, he feels really, really bad about it. And he gives her just a grand funeral to make up for it. Okay, so here's what Hercules comes in. He happens to show up right on the day of her funeral doesn't know what's your funeral? Admetus doesn't tell him he doesn't want to bring the mood down. But when Hercules finds out he's like, Oh, I'm at my brother's house and I'm drinking but he just buried his wife I've been such a dick to fight death and get her back. And so keep does
DJ 10:50
oh my gosh,
Darien 10:52
Maye he goes to the underworld to get her, maybe he just fights death at her tomb. Like who knows?
DJ 10:57
Maybe he like catches THanatos while like, just kind of like walking and chatting with her. It's like hold on.
Darien 11:02
Yeah, yeah, probably that even and so he brings Eclectus back to life which honestly I feel like this could be viewed as like oh Hercules defying the fades but a click this wasn't the one they said was supposed to die. So really? This is all going according to plan.
DJ 11:22
The Fates like Yeah, we had a couple of knots and like inner woven stuff we like we couldn't quite read it ourselves because we nodded it a little too much if you're
Darien 11:32
marrying this asshole husband who would let her die in his place it's probably one of those nights like fuck you so the Flates there the Sisters of the fates, but they make flan, the flates. That's dumb I'm cutting it.
DJ 11:48
Flan's pretty good.
Darien 11:49
So the fates were strongly tied to death, obviously for the ancient Greeks because they one of them would cut the the threat of life and that connection hasn't disappeared. There's a lot of the fates coming up when death is involved. In the Percy Jackson book, Grover is specifically freaked out because they cut the thread, not because they sewed this giant sock like whatever this they had woven the Destiny what would happen wasn't super concerning to them as much as the Ending. I think it's also kind of cool to note that they were not weaving or looming anything. They were, they were knitting, which is not the same thing. As I understand it. That's just an interesting thing. To know. I imagine it's easier to carrying rounded needles than it was to like lug that loom around. It's a big, I assume it's big.
DJ 12:38
I just likeit just like constantly like lugging it around just like setting up camp in front of Camp half blood go and just like saying,
Darien 12:45
Hey, how's God just doing
DJ 12:47
the whole fucking red thing? And then like, just staring at a camper? In like, the middle one points and measure
Darien 12:57
the power move just to remind the campers to stay in their lane.
DJ 13:01
Points A fucking Clarice.
Darien 13:03
Yeah, I don't really know what a loom looks like, in real life. I've never seen one. I do have like an animal crossing, though. And it's massive. It's bigger than my little outdoor outdoor steam bath. So the fates in modern media are often very anchored to death. Specifically, if someone cheats death, all the fates are just one of the fates is probably going to show up and be like, What the fuck?
DJ 13:29
Yeah, it's not.
Darien 13:30
Yeah, two specific examples are Sabrina, the Teenage Witch, where Sabrina saves her friend from falling down an open elevator shaft.
DJ 13:38
How was that cheating? No,
Darien 13:39
exactly. I always thought that, like one of the feet show up and they're like, Oh, she was supposed to die. What the hell? And I'm like, her friends a witch. Like
DJ 13:48
it's not like they died. And she revived. Yeah,
Darien 13:50
it seemed like maybe they wrote the episode. And originally, Serena might have brought her back to life. And they're like, that's too dark.
DJ 13:57
Or what? Are you kidding? That makes way more sense.
Darien 13:59
Yeah, the way they play in supernatural makes the most sense to me. Because in supernatural the episode begins and you have just humans going about their life. And this woman we don't know what or who she is. She like freezes time and create situations where they'll have a horrible accident and they'll just die. And so this just keeps happening and happening. And they're like What the fuck is going on? You find out that this episode takes place in an alternate timeline in which one of the angels it is ongoing battle. It's very convoluted and cumbersome.
DJ 14:26
Supernatural. Hey,
Darien 14:28
listen to 15 seasons anyway. So when the angels went back in time and prevented the Titanic from sinking? Yeah, that's creating hundreds and 1000s of new souls because I guess souls or energy I don't remember it's been a long time since I've watched this episode. But so this this is one of the fates who was going around being like, yeah, no, these people aren't supposed to exist. They're supposed to have died. You can't just do that. And so that made a lot of sense to me if we're going to use the fates for cheating death.
DJ 14:56
Yeah, going back in time to literally changing things. For fucking stopping your friend from falling off a cliff.
Darien 15:05
Yeah, because with this Sabrina one, if you want her to die, you don't let her set up her death to be by her friend who was a witch who could prevent it. That should just be part of your plan. She has a near death experience.
DJ 15:15
Yeah.
Darien 15:16
DJ, as you already mentioned, for a lot of people, I think our age are really just anybody who casually has seen anything Greek mythology, they've probably seen Disney's Hercules. The fates are very, very anchored.
DJ 15:29
Or if you're just into Disney,
Darien 15:32
which, yeah, because
DJ 15:33
that's just a classic Disney movie.
Darien 15:35
It's the first one that Johnny our brother saw in theaters.
DJ 15:39
Nice first one that I saw was monsters inc.
Darien 15:42
Oh, yeah. We saw that instead of Harry Potter for Thanksgiving. Which is fine. We saw Harry Potter opening weekend. It was great. My first season or even my first movie in theaters was Hunchback of Notre Dame. I still have like a baby memory of just the Notre Dame and that the swooping camera and the bells ringing like just that shot is in my brain.
Darien 16:02
So but in Hercules The fates are kind of mashed together with the grace sisters. Obviously the fates don't share one eyeball they're not jumping around like that. That is a trait belonging to a completely different set of like three three sets Yeah, it does have the great sisters who they shared one eye and also one tooth
DJ 16:23
one tooth which was
Darien 16:24
yeah,
DJ 16:26
don't understand the tooth and get the I think don't understand that.
Darien 16:28
It's the gray sisters show up in see if monsters don't they DJ?
DJ 16:33
They do. Yeah, like at the start because like we need to get Camp HalfBlood but fucking yesterday, and so then they order a taxi of the gray sisters. And then they going like 900 miles an hour.
Darien 16:42
We'll talk all about the gray sisters, when we get to them during our sea of monster set of episodes, and we'll figure out what's with the eye and what's with the tooth.
Darien 16:52
They as in the fates kind of get blended with different triple goddess figures a lot in modern media. In another Disney film The Black Cauldron, they are the original owners of the cauldron these three witches who are able to like kind of tell the future obviously Disney did not create The Black Cauldron. It was part of the chronicles of Prydain. But the characters these witches do appear in that book. And they are described as kind of these three witches they appear as old crones in the day and beautiful women's at night. They also kind of just switch around their identities all willy nilly are like you're who I'm that one today. You can be you could be you Ordu I'll be Orwin and that kind of thing. Yeah, but they are actually shown in the books as weaving. And towards the end of the series. They give the hero Taryn an unfinished tapestry of his life. Which is Yeah, which is pretty cool. And Lloyd Alexander, the author has stated that the characters were inspired by the Moray, the fates of Greeks, the norn of Scandinavian folklore, who were also basically kind of their version of the fates and the Morrigan of Irish mythology, another set of like, triple goddess figures. another place where the fates are mashed up or in I'm very excited to talk about this one. The DC vertigo Sandman comics by Neil Gaiman. Oh, very near each one. I
DJ 18:15
don't know because I just haven't read
Darien 18:18
them no and they are a lots like, oh, goodness me. The Sandman is a lot but it's great and so the the fates appear, they are depicted with a loom. They're more kind of like the witches in Macbeth. But when Morpheus or dream the protagonist goes to them to try to find out where his items of power or his his sigils of power are after he's been imprisoned for like, almost 100 years, and they tell him but this is another example of the kind of the the fates being blended with another set of three figures because really, these the three as they're often called, they're also called the kindly ones, and they serve as the Furies in the story specifically, they were very, very fury when they go to destroy Morpheus and the dreaming at the end of the series.
DJ 19:07
Oh
Darien 19:08
Oh it's a lot. The Sandman is a lot. It's great. It's beautiful. I love it. I hope Netflix does not fuck it up. During their adaptation.
DJ 19:17
I remember you telling me that they're making that occasion
Darien 19:20
that Netflix is? Yeah, it was. It was also announced this week or the week we're recording that Netflix is also going to do a Kane chronicle series.
DJ 19:29
Oh yeah I saw that. You sent that one to me too. That's
Darien 19:32
yeah. So we've got hopefully Percy Jackson on Disney plus Kane Chronicles on Netflix. I have a lot of confidence in the Percy Jackson one. To be honest. It sounds like Rick Riordan has a lot of creative control
DJ 19:43
that when they're doing a series for both for the Kane, they're doing feature films, which is going to be
Darien 19:50
Wait, yeah, I didn't I didn't catch them. But I do have a lot of confidence in Netflix at this moment after their debacle with avatar, where they were adamant about no yeah. We have white people in here. What do we do? It's like, no,
DJ 20:03
no, this is an Asian stores.
Darien 20:04
Yeah, it's from various Asian cultures like what the hell? So,
DJ 20:10
yeah, that was
Darien 20:13
so anyway, so maybe they'll maybe they'll do Sadie and Carter, right. I don't have a lot of faith. But I love love some Egyptian lore. I think last week that I said that Greek mythology was measure Moors. Egyptian was so good. I definitely said last week that Egyptian Greek lore was my first love. That was a lie. It was actually Egyptian. Like I do remember
DJ 20:37
Greek was my first but I think like I've settled on Norse because Norse is just
Darien 20:41
sick. They're sick. And maybe one day
DJ 20:43
was so fucking cool.
Darien 20:45
Maybe one day we will talk about about Norse lore.
DJ 20:48
I mean, if we continue this podcast, we'll eventually get to nine.
Darien 20:51
Hey, and then I'll have to change up the intro. I don't know what we'll call it after this. That's the future Darien is problem. DJ you already alluded to it. But when I was doing research on different modern versions of modern retellings of the fates, the arrow verse was honestly the most interesting take,
DJ 21:10
which is what I mean like the reverse is pretty cool. I watched a lot of the flash I stopped around season three because I'm just like, whatever it was, what was on Netflix, and then I just I just haven't bothered to go back to it. And I just don't have the time of day to fucking follow three or four different series.
Darien 21:27
Yeah, it's a lot
DJ 21:27
like that. Like I love it when series interact with each other. But when they interact with each other in such a way to where I have to watch the other series to get what's going on in this series. I hate that. I don't like that.
Darien 21:42
I will hand it to the arrow verse they did manage to successfully create what it feels like to try to follow comic books in TV form so good. DJ, did you in your research? Do you know how the fates are used in the arrowverse? Tell me about
DJ 21:58
I was like a little bit but it was the clotho, the one who looms it all or weaves it comes out and says well, people shouldn't their fate shouldn't be determined, and she destroys the loom and spreads it across the multiverse. And then I guess the the crisis of earth that like happens, a lot of Earth's decided to come together and just like get merged or something. I don't know. It didn't
Darien 22:24
crisis of infinite earths
DJ 22:26
Yeah. It didn't quite explain what happened. There's like It's like they weren't they came together to Earth prime and like, does that mean they merged? Or is it just like, you know, the United Nations like
Darien 22:37
what's going on very comic booky? It's very, like Lucky.
DJ 22:41
And then like, well, clotho, I guess it's now Charles.
Darien 22:44
Charlie
DJ 22:45
got Charlie got stripped of all her their power. Is it a girl?
Darien 22:50
Yes.
DJ 22:51
Okay, it got shipped with all her power. The other two are now game together with an entrepreneur from hell. Find the loon pieces so that they can get their power back.
Darien 23:03
Yeah,
DJ 23:04
they're probably continued after that. But then I'm like, I gotta get into this pocket.
Darien 23:09
Yeah, you were researching right? 10 minutes before it which I appreciate. But yeah, that's about as much I did not also have not watched any of the Arrowverse I did see the very first episode of Arrow liked it a whole lot. Did not have DirecTV, or any sort of like cable at the time, did not want to pay for Hulu, have not seen anything else. But yeah, that's really cool. Because I think, honestly, I feel like that's a really, really interesting way to use the fates. Because as we were talking about earlier, whether or not you think having goddesses or the divine or any sort of like divinity, outlining your life, and your destiny as good or bad is highly up to you and your experiences and your personal beliefs.
Darien 23:47
So having one of the faiths decide, no, this is bad, they should be able to do their own humans or everybody should make their own choices. And the other two being like no free will is chaos, and that it goes against the natural order things need to be organized and determined. i It sounds like a very, very cool way to do it. I get nervous actually watched it. So we can't say whether that was storytelling. But hey, if any of our listeners have watched these episodes, I think specifically these were DCS legends of tomorrow was where the fates were really playing this big role. And you want to tell us if it was good or bad? Absolutely. Come hang out with us over on Twitter, or honestly probably Instagram. That's where we are the most active I'll just be honest, does have a Facebook page, but come play with us on Instagram.
DJ 24:32
Yeah.
Darien 24:34
One more modern interpretation or modern I suppose retelling that I want to touch on where the fates appear is the musical Hades town, which
DJ 24:43
that sounds fun
Darien 24:44
Yeah, it's so cool. Davis have you
DJ 24:45
sounds like have you heard about I've never even fucking heard anything about this. That sounds sick. Oh,
Darien 24:51
I'm so glad I get to tell you about it. Okay, so I've heard of Hades town for a while and I always thought that the name was just a reference to Hades. In Greek, right like, and that this show was just about whatever eventually I did find out. Oh no, it actually is a musical retelling of the story of Orpheus and Eurydice.
DJ 25:11
Oh, that's sick.
Darien 25:12
Yeah. And so you've got obviously I didn't I don't want to spoil it because I'm one day I want us to go see it. Eventually when pandemic is over vaccines we should go see it because it sounds incredible. It's it's beautiful. The because it's not as if it's set in ancient Greece. It's kind of set in this very, like,
DJ 25:34
I'm looking at pictures. Yeah, yeah, it's
Darien 25:36
kind of looks kind of great. Depression. Me. The songs are very, like jazz and blues inspired.
DJ 25:42
So what's the 30s?
Darien 25:43
yeah, it's very 30s the underworld and like, Hades isn't so much actual death and the underworld it's like a city where people go but once you go there, you're under contract and you can never leave so that's what happens to Eurydice things are really rough. And she ultimately decides I'm just going to, I gotta go I gotta take my destiny, my own hand and things just to be better here. I'm gonna go and Orpheus tries to go and get her back. And it's ultimately Yeah, it's Orpheus interesting that that story can only end one way. And I think that's that story. In particular, if you're going to retell it, it's such a brilliant reason to bring the fates in as the fates because that
DJ 26:18
I feel like retelling stories could be a lot of fun. If you just like, even if like the fates weren't originally there, you just bring them in there because like, oh, it's trying to change their fate because this is a retelling of the original story. But the original story ended this way. So it's got to end this way.
Darien 26:34
Yeah, actually. So Lindsay Ellis, fabulous YouTuber. In her video about the Titanic. She talks about Hades town and specifically what makes it so appealing and also comparing that to that date, the Titanic is that you know how this story ends, you know that Orpheus is going to fail to save Eurydice at the last moment, you know, the Titanic is going to hit that iceberg and sink but even knowing how it ends
DJ 26:59
getting there
Darien 27:00
getting there, like can because you're getting there and you're watching you're loving this characters the story in the music and Hades town and the the romance in in Titanic, and you know how it's going to end and just that this part of you like maybe this time it won't. Maybe this time, maybe this time the Titanic doesn't hit the iceberg? Maybe this time Orpheus doesn't look back. But no, it will in the same way every every time because that is fate. And so I think having the fates be there for Hades town is such a smart idea because it could have been the Muses right singing and stuff like we saw on Hercules. It could have been the Furies who are actually in the underworld, I believe. Yeah, Orpheus is singing moves them to tears. So they could have been there. But no, it's the fates, because this is exactly what they're for.
Darien 27:44
I think in storytelling, I believe this is what makes the fates so relevant today to keep talking about because yeah, having them show up and antagonize Sabrina, the Teenage Witch is funny. And having them battle each other out over freewill and DCS legend tomorrow is really cool. But talking about the inevitability of it all. Whether you believe in fate or destiny, there are some things in life when you look back, and you're like, there was no way I can change it now. And when you think about those memories, again, you'll wish and hope that like, but maybe it'll be different this time. And it can't. It's just that's what happened.
DJ 28:19
That's fate.
Darien 28:19
That's fate, that's permanence. And once it's over, it's over. That's kind of the way we're living life is that every moment is gone. And what we did, then we can never change. So all we can do is look ahead and try to figure out how can I look back on tomorrow? And not curse the fates? But smile at what happened to me? If that's in your control?
DJ 28:42
Yeah,
Darien 28:42
that was a weird kind of tangent down and specifically I thought was really cool because the the actresses who played the fates actually decided which of the Three Fates they were going to be. And so they really match it to their singing style. What they were interested in the the actresses are Jewel Blackman, Yvette Gonzales Nacer, and K Trinidad and their stellar other gorgeous singers and they're amazing performers. And so one thing I really like so I read this article from Long Island weekly from last November, November 2019, where they discuss these actresses discuss, like the role and their approach to doing the fates. But what I really liked is that the way Gonzalez-Nacer describes it, she says, In this interpretation, we sometimes take on the role of the wind and push people one way or another literally and figuratively, so they can fulfill their predetermined fates. And that's something you can really see in the song when the chips are down, the fates are singing at Eurydice to try to make her make a decision. And that song can come off as very antagonistic, antagonistic, where they're trying to force her to do something or like goad her into it, but the way that one of the other actress Trinidad describes it as one of the biggest things I thought about while we were learning this number, this number beginning when the chips are down, was that we shouldn't be seeing her As our victim, we are her cheerleaders. We're just nudging just cheering her to continue to make the decision that we know she's going to make.
Darien 30:08
I think that's a really cool way. Yeah, having the fates be?
DJ 30:14
Yes.
Darien 30:14
But yeah, one day DJ, we will go see Hades town. Um, so I was super fun. And we'll certainly probably do it a bonus episode one of our what I'm calling our re myth episodes. Episode. Thank you. I was very proud of it. Yeah, those are the stories of the fates. And there's obviously so many, many more, the fates are so powerful
DJ 30:34
Fates have been around for hundreds of years/
Darien 30:35
Yeah, been around for, yeah, 1000 centuries. And obviously, various cultures have also had their own kinds of interpretations of the fates. And so sometimes you're not using the Greek fates you might be using, say in the comic book wicked and divine, where you have a bunch of interpretations of these godly characters. The fate character is the norn from from Scandinavia, and so that's really cool, but we'll put a pin in that and circle back to Wicked and Divine I'm sure in the future,
DJ 31:00
eventually.
Darien 31:01
DJ have these stories or maybe other ones, you know, that we didn't discuss? Do you have any favorite modern interpretations of the fates?
DJ 31:08
Honestly, I think it's just Hercules because that one's the most prevalent and
Darien 31:11
really
DJ 31:12
just nostalgic. I mean, yeah, I don't I don't know like thinking about it. I don't see the fates all too often and media but maybe that's just what I'm watching and maybe it's just I'm not looking. And so it's Hercules is like, Haha, the fates are in your face. And they're always there's just a good time.
Darien 31:27
Yeah
DJ 31:28
watch them fucking bicker and banter. Like, I know that. That was the what would they call it?
Darien 31:32
The Gray sisters?
DJ 31:33
The Gray sisters. Oh, that was mostly the gray sisters picker banner that they were playing off of. But it was still fun.
Darien 31:39
Yeah, it is really fun. So what do you think the fates would look like today? If you were going to do a modern telling? Let's make our own fate? Yeah. Obviously they need to be creating the fate and destiny on something looms. And weaving isn't super relevant, prevalent now. And honestly, in a lot of retellings, you don't often see their loom even in Percy Jackson, as we said, their knitting. So how do you think the fates would be
DJ 32:05
on a typewriter? Just writing the guy's life. And when the person's like writing, when the second things they've done, they just grab it handed to the next person that she puts up period.
Darien 32:19
I actually, I was kind of like really typewriter modern? but I do like that visual of like do-do-do and someone just rips and hands and then dot! I do like.
DJ 32:28
Yeah?
Darien 32:29
Okay, well now I'm kind of embarrassed to share mine.
DJ 32:34
It's like, yeah, I want it to be modern. I was thinking, I mean, it was thinking of a writing kind of style. But I'm like, What are they gonna do? Just fucking share a Google Doc?
Darien 32:45
It's a great way to collaborate.
DJ 32:47
Like, well, like yeah, they're modern but maybe they've stuck in their time you know? So here's the fucking type right?
Darien 32:54
So mine was and again I'm embarrassed but I'm gonna share it anyway because you shared yours was well what if they're creating an Instagram feed?
DJ 33:04
For like everyone they're going so here's
Darien 33:07
it's like, someone's like, here are the photos that are putting the captions and here are the keywords that it's going and going and
DJ 33:12
The last picture is their gravestone?
Darien 33:14
Yeah! I really like your your interpretation of like it being a typewriter. It's like oh, yeah, they're It's modern, but they're still talking their time because that feels very lore Olympus to me when we smash cut and actually see the face and they're, like VHS
DJ 33:29
yes VHS and that's great. I think that's a lot of fun. And yeah, I just like the idea of someone fucking ripping it out like this is pretty dies.
Darien 33:37
That's very good.
Darien 33:40
well, I think fates on a typewriter is is a great idea because as a writer myself you definitely do get the vibe of I'm controlling destiny of these characters and will you know joy or will you know pain it's
DJ 33:54
just like imagine somebody like running down the hall and like say like these misinterpretation of fates like and you just hear a typewriter tic tac and then you just like, like, like Achilles chasing them, you know? Like, they get cornered and then you hear a rip? And then you hear a fucking like, right? Is the stab you like see a pen just die?
Darien 34:14
I wasn't even thinking about the sound aesthetic of that. That's so good. Wonderful. All right. Well, we'll we'll work on getting that that short film in production on Patreon that'll be our 1000 mission goal Davis movie
DJ 34:30
like and then it like once that dot hits, like just like it's suddenly just a fucking printer press and the guy's like, here's my story.
Darien 34:40
That's very good. Okay, okay, hold on. So is the person doing the period using a quill
DJ 34:45
probably. I'm gonna call it like, let's be really quill or fountain
Darien 34:49
pen fountain pen. fountain pens probably good. Do you get that like ink dribble, so there's
DJ 34:54
like a just a tiny dribble of being and it's just like when I'm in a crow it also just be Like a little extra, because like, let's be really, they're stuck in there.
Darien 35:04
I liked that typewriters do in fact have periods on them. But no, the final period isn't a quill because it wouldn't look like the rest of the
DJ 35:14
periods. But it's got like, like a little dribble. Yeah,
Darien 35:17
because the the period made by a quill or fountain pen will look very, very different than the period made by the typewriter and the end of your life is very, very different than the end of any other sentence or chapter. That's very good. I don't think it's gonna get any better than that. DJ. The Fates. The fate you have any other thoughts on the fates before? Before we say goodbye to our wonderful listeners?
DJ 35:43
I don't.
Darien 35:44
Okay, well, the fates have decreed that this is the end of the episode.
DJ 35:50
Clearly,
Darien 35:50
I'm not sorry about that joke at all. Thank you, everybody, for listening. We had a wonderful time. If you liked what you heard, please do us a favor and share this episode with your friends. Maybe share it with a friend who always says well, things will work out the way they're meant to whenever anything happens ever. And just start a dialogue about whether or not they believe that ancient Greek goddesses are weaving their destiny.
DJ 36:15
You guys have a great day. We'll catch you next time.
DJ 36:17
Yeah, and until next time, don't be like Zeus.
DJ 36:20
Don't be like Zeus.
Darien 36:23
Podcast of Poseidon is created, produced and hosted by Darien and DJ smart. It's edited by Darien Smartt.
DJ 36:29
Our music is Athens festival by Martin. Our cover art is by Andre Miller. Find them on Instagram at bombshell nutshell.
Darien 36:37
Come hang out with us on Instagram and Twitter at Podcast of Poseidon. Find all of our episodes episodes transcripts at podcast of poseidon.com
DJ 36:45
Thanks for listening
Transcribed by https://otter.ai