Story 68: Back to the Underworld (w/ Robert Gaymer)
“William Shakespeare? The playwright?"
Do you get déjà vu?
Podcast favorite Robert Gaymer (they/them) returns for what can only be described as an episode remake. We’re heading back to the Underworld to thoroughly examine its landscape, citizens, and infrastructure.
Talking points include the various rivers that make up Underworld topography, controversial judges, creative ways to pay the ferryman, and why death feels less scary if the afterlife is bureaucratically organized.
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Spoilers for The Sun and the Star, Trials of Apollo, The Kane Chronicles, Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard, Hades, Lore Olympus, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, Adventure Time, Adventure Time: Distant Lands - Together Again, SMITE, Assassin’s Creed: Odyssey, Disney’s Hercules, Go the Distance: A Twisted Tale and Girl, Goddess, Queen
Content Warning: This episode contains mention of and conversations about death, the afterlife, murder, cannibalism, and reincarnation.
About Us
Muses of Mythology was created and co-hosted by Darien and DJ Smartt.
Our music is Athens Festival by Martin Haene. Our cover art is by Audrey Miller. Find her on Instagram @bombshellnutshellart
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Find us @MusesOfMyth on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Find all of our episodes and episode transcripts at MusesOfMythology.com
TRANSCRIPT
Darien (00:04.196)
Welcome to Muses of Mythology, a podcast where we explore how ancient myths become part of modern pop culture through the lens of Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson and the Olympian series. This is Story 68, The Underworld. I'm your co-host and podcasting muse, Darien Smartt. Joining me is my co-host and brother DJ.
DJ (00:20.795)
How's everybody doing today? I am the Muse of Good Guards.
Darien (00:25.727)
Interesting. All right. Well, let's go muse around in the garden a bit and then I think we're gonna meet a few.
[sound break]
Darien (01:21.711)
Alright. DJ? I have a weird sense of deja vu. Because I feel like we've been here before.
DJ (01:34.567)
feel like we probably have.
Darien (01:36.852)
Mm-hmm.
But I also feel like maybe this time around is gonna be better. And.
DJ (01:43.731)
It's also gonna be different since we're muses now.
Darien (01:48.461)
Yes, and we are joined by beloved returning guest, Robert, that fuckin meme boi. It's you.
Robert (01:56.99)
it's me. Hi. Presumably this episode is going to come out maybe when the strikes are still going so nothing I can really promote all my podcasts that I do are involves truck work so
DJ (02:11.919)
Hate to see it, truly.
Darien (02:13.163)
Hate to see it. Mm-hmm. Okay, that's not actually true. You actually also do a podcast about a webcomic that is not struck, but just have not been able to do it since your co-host started grad school. My favorite podcast hasn't released an episode since June. Very homophobic.
DJ (02:22.812)
Hehehe
Robert (02:24.38)
Yeah.
Robert (02:29.878)
very homophobic. We had our pride and then we died. R.I.P. And right now it's sloth. This is my first time recording a podcast anything in like a month?
DJ (02:30.247)
sad.
Darien (02:35.047)
What's it? Pride then wrath. Now it's sloth, I think.
Darien (02:43.751)
Mm-hmm. We're in a time. We are in a time. Just brief reminders, support the striking unions, all of them, even the ones that have just started striking. We support the auto unions. Solidarity among the working class.
Robert (02:47.036)
We're having a time.
Robert (02:58.326)
Solidarity among the working class.
Darien (03:02.871)
Well Robert, welcome to the episode, we are in the underworld, yet again.
Robert (03:07.51)
Oh boy, we're in the underworld. Now you guys were here a long time ago. This was like close to the end of season one, wasn't it?
Darien (03:13.803)
How long? Oh my god, so- yes, so long ago. Holy cow.
DJ (03:16.876)
Yeah, it was a while ago.
Robert (03:20.295)
I'm also upset because I realize I'm here for episodes or stories 68
Darien (03:24.919)
I know when I said it, I was thinking of it like, wow, Robert's gonna be so upset.
DJ (03:27.113)
One short.
Robert (03:30.723)
One off what one I?
Darien (03:34.023)
And you picked this one too! Robert, why did you ask for this episode?
Robert (03:38.018)
because I'm a slut for the underworld.
Darien (03:40.023)
Hell yeah! Let's jump right in! Oh, you're gonna say- yeah. You had some more Underworld things you wanted to share?
Darien (03:53.592)
Mm.
Robert (04:00.608)
I don't like thinking about death, but unfortunately I think about it too much.
Darien (04:04.416)
You like thinking about death as a bureaucratic entity?
Robert (04:08.038)
It makes it feel a little more not scary.
Darien (04:12.055)
But yeah, I think that's the general consensus we're gonna come to. Yeah, giving it structure makes it less scary. So we are gonna get into it. DJ, I'm gonna pitch it to you. What's the deal with death in the Percy Jackson books? Well, specific, well, not death, the underworld. I'm so sorry, the Greek underworld.
DJ (04:14.983)
gives it structure.
DJ (04:30.146)
Uh, there's quite
There's quite a bit, but I'm gonna go ahead and preface this here. Darian, yesterday, or today, earlier, at some point in time, you told me that this was a Cerberus episode.
Darien (04:47.464)
Oh, I said underworld and Cerberus. That's what it is.
DJ (04:50.899)
You said only Cerberus.
Darien (04:53.247)
Motherfucker look at the spreadsheet look at the show notes that you have access to
DJ (04:55.851)
I believe, here's the thing, I believe all of that is in there, but I'm telling you, word of mouth, Darian. You said servers. But anyway, the underworld is a...
Darien (05:06.227)
Well then hold on hold it if I said servers what did you do in response with that information?
DJ (05:12.559)
when normally doing a way to come up so i can talk about
Darien (05:19.514)
Alright, alright, go on, go on.
DJ (05:21.923)
All right, so the underworld in Percy Jackson is a place that they don't visit often because who wants to visit the underworld often? But they always go in like backwater ways, I feel. I guess maybe the first time they went in. But this time they went in through the door of Orpheus, not Orpheus. Yeah, Orpheus, yeah, yeah. The way of Orpheus and they go through and, the way of water.
Darien (05:35.383)
Yeah.
Darien (05:41.044)
Orpheus, yeah.
Darien (05:46.643)
way of water.
Robert (05:49.422)
This is the way.
DJ (05:52.219)
We didn't see much of it this book, specifically, because they were just visiting, they weren't trying to get caught. So they went to the River of Sticks, which is one of the five rivers of the underworld, and had a good time there. As good as time as you can. Took a nice dip. Hey, I mean, it resulted in something good, didn't it?
Darien (05:55.028)
Mm-mm.
Darien (06:09.42)
That's how we can describe it. They had a good time.
Robert (06:16.466)
What's that shirt that the Tom Holland Spider-Man wears that's like, I survived my trip to New York City?
DJ (06:23.751)
So probably something like that.
Robert (06:24.95)
Simple as that, they need to give Percy a shirt like that. I survived my trip to the underworld.
DJ (06:29.46)
I survived my dip in the sticks.
Darien (06:30.157)
And it just says trips in parentheses
Robert (06:32.206)
true a hastily drawn s with a sharpie
Darien (06:36.41)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (06:36.893)
Yeah.
Darien (06:39.379)
Yeah, honestly, how many times have characters been to the underworld? Four times? I think characters have been to the underworld five times. I'm including Nico's solo trip.
Robert (06:43.38)
we have
DJ (06:50.163)
I feel like there's more than that, right?
Robert (06:50.222)
Alright, we have the original trio in the first book, we have...
Darien (06:55.04)
Uh huh.
Robert (06:57.23)
Percy dipping in the sticks in the fifth book. We have mention of Nico going to the underworld and meeting Hazel.
Darien (07:00.518)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (07:05.995)
That's right. Now, I always feel like you have to not count Nico because he's almost always in the underworld. Yeah, there's the hazel one. Then there's him trying to get into Tartarus by himself. And then there's the fall into Tartarus. And then there's Will and Nico in Sun and the Star. So that's six specific outings. And then Apollo at the end.
DJ (07:22.756)
And then Apollo, Apollo at the end during his fight with...
Robert (07:25.6)
Apollo.
just with Python.
DJ (07:31.003)
Python. I was going through like snake names. I'm like, it's not Viper. It's not just snake, dude.
Darien (07:31.336)
Yeah.
Robert (07:35.966)
Yeah, the thing is, the thing is, if I had a nickel for every time a giant snake was the antagonist of a Rick Riordan book, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Darien (07:36.25)
Vyyyper!
Darien (07:47.907)
I think you'd have three nickels because Apophis is the snake of chaos.
DJ (07:48.147)
It's not weird that it's happened twice.
Robert (07:53.13)
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Apophis and Python, that's it.
Darien (07:57.891)
Oh, uh oh, I was thinking Jormungandr, technically, in the Norse books, but it's really more Loki.
DJ (07:57.94)
What's the third?
Robert (08:02.301)
Oh yeah.
DJ (08:06.143)
I don't think it's weird that it happened twice, given the fact that snakes were just evil in mythology.
Darien (08:07.283)
Human God is just not like an antagonist. He's just there.
Darien (08:13.851)
not necessarily evil. Like snakes in Greek mythology were really representative of change and hekate. Hermes is associated with snakes. They just are like underworld things.
Robert (08:27.639)
Yeah.
DJ (08:28.263)
They caused death. People didn't like them.
Robert (08:32.522)
Well maybe they shouldn't have disturbed the note ropes.
DJ (08:36.467)
Well, they don't know that yet.
Darien (08:37.771)
The danger noodles. Yeah, so those are our seven specifically named outings. I'm sure Nico has a ton more solo outings, but those are the specific ones we've got. So.
Robert (08:39.264)
Exactly.
DJ (08:51.047)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (08:57.751)
That's a lot. Because Greek heroes were not rolling up into the under roll a lot, except yeah, they kind of were.
Robert (08:59.276)
Yeah.
Robert (09:05.002)
You got Hercules, you had to go get Cerberus, you had... The fucking famous one that I'm forgetting that literally Nico and Will are based off of, oh my god, uh... Yes, there we go. Jesus Christ.
Darien (09:06.563)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
DJ (09:08.915)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (09:15.299)
Orpheus.
Darien (09:16.031)
Orpheus? Yep. Theseus rolled into the underworld.
DJ (09:20.199)
Hehehehe
Darien (09:24.595)
Odysseus rolled up into the underworld. I think Aeneas rolls up into the underworld in the Aeneid. Stop that.
DJ (09:26.759)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (09:30.783)
Yeah, it's just like, here's the thing, heroes that go up into the underworld, sure, there's like a lot in the stories. But then there's like, you got to counteract that with how many Greeks actually were there? Right? It's a percentile thing, right? Every other guy, it might-
Robert (09:43.298)
Like, like, like 10.
Darien (09:44.188)
of every other guy. Like, Perseus never went to- Dionysus rolls up into the underworld before he becomes a god, or after he becomes a god, still.
DJ (09:50.523)
Yeah, so it's like, you know, and it's just like, the population of Greece is like 100,000, and then there's like five people over here, six, seven people, you know, rolling up to the other world. It's a percentile thing. I think it balances out.
Robert (09:50.604)
Mm-hmm.
Robert (10:06.063)
the 1% but not like being, not like that. Not being, yeah, also kind of like that.
Darien (10:07.844)
Not like that. But kind of like that.
DJ (10:12.667)
The privilege to go to the underworld, if you will. Ha ha ha!
Robert (10:15.83)
the privilege to go. I... Yeah, he had one fucking job. Yeah, he had one job, dude.
Darien (10:17.786)
It works out for everyone except Orpheus.
DJ (10:21.263)
Well, Orpheus broke his deal.
Darien (10:24.543)
kind of like not work because Theseus rolled up into the underworld with his like asshole buddy of son of Zeus to go like kidnap Persephone and then they get trapped in the underworld until Hercules comes and rescues them so I'd like to think when Dionysus rolled up to go get his mom he saw Theseus there and just flips him the bird as he walks by
Darien (10:51.767)
Peri and he says fuck you
DJ (10:54.406)
Get fucked, bud.
Darien (10:55.651)
I'm gonna go.
Robert (10:56.162)
That's fucked, bud. Eternal torment. So the underworld.
Darien (11:01.343)
What a segue!
Darien (11:05.463)
The Underworld Robert, what do you want to talk about? Where, where, I got a whole page of notes, but like, where do you want to?
Robert (11:07.755)
Yes.
Robert (11:12.406)
homie you got... I breezed through your notes like a little bit before we started recording god damn you are meticulous
Darien (11:21.139)
Ay, ay, I love, I love this. I love making the show. I love researching the show. I love editing the show. I love recording the show. I wish I loved promoting the show on social media as much as I loved every other aspect of doing this podcast.
DJ (11:21.925)
Hehehe
Robert (11:28.814)
All right.
DJ (11:35.375)
need to get somebody to do it. Just hire somebody to do it.
Robert (11:35.466)
You just gotta make... just gotta make memes.
Darien (11:39.587)
For real, for real, for real. No, like I always say, Robert is like the tent pole of the music mythology marketing strategy. I wish they would let me pay them. I should have just left five dollar bills all over your car when I was in New York.
DJ (11:47.975)
Hehehe
Robert (11:48.474)
Ehh.
Robert (11:52.29)
I would've been really weird to just like randomly be cleaning up my car, be like, this, this is fine. What, where the fuck did this $5 come from?
Darien (11:54.36)
Just keep f-
Darien (12:00.107)
But you like notice it does have my signature if you examine it. Cause I do want you to know where it's from, but you can't just, but only if you check. If you're coming to visit, I'm gonna leave like button pins all over your Airbnb. Robert, do you like button pins? I actually do need to know this. Cause I keep wanting to, great. There's a lot at work I wanna buy before I leave. So, all right. The underworld.
Robert (12:08.908)
I mean then.
Robert (12:13.342)
Oh dear god. I do like button- yeah I do.
DJ (12:14.483)
There you go.
Robert (12:20.194)
Fuck you. So the underworld.
DJ (12:20.315)
Hehehehehehehe
Robert (12:27.494)
Like you're like you have mentioned, even in the underworld is sort of like the underworld like everyone knows there's like the parts, you know, there's like the fields of the Aspidel there is Elysium there is the other parts. The parts where you suffer for eternity, you know, Sisyphus up there rolling his boulder. One one must imagine Sisyphus is happy.
DJ (12:39.213)
Excuse me.
Darien (12:43.051)
The other ones.
Darien (12:51.075)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We do love Boldy.
Robert (12:55.547)
One must imagine Sisyphus is happy, as the saying is, which he is not, it's torment, but you know. Um, but also...
Robert (13:34.722)
So yeah, even though the underworld is sort of like this void kind of thing, I again think about the fucking soup void that the gods draw power from. It's not the same thing, but the underworld is kind of like a void where even though it wasn't particularly concrete, the rivers were always a long lasting structure of the underworld that was definitive.
Darien (13:39.509)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (13:45.603)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Robert (14:02.635)
and we should talk about the rivers.
Darien (14:05.091)
We should definitely talk about the rivers. Oh yes, we should definitely talk about the rivers. I love the rivers of the underworld, because early, like in the Iliad, in the Odyssey, the underworld is just, like you said, Robert, just like a void. It's like a nothing thing. There's just like, the souls are just shades, and they have like no wisdom and no knowledge of what's going on, but they also can give prophecies, so like, okay. But even like Achilles.
DJ (14:06.835)
The rivers.
Darien (14:34.427)
note is noted to when in the Odyssey when Odysseus rolls into the underworld to like get some information He's Achilles and he's like hey like You were highly respected by the Greeks and like you have like great power among the dead Achilles you should not be bitter at your death, but he replied Odysseus You must not comfort me for death I would prefer to be a workman hired by a poor man on a peasant farm then rule the king of then rule as king
of all the dead. And that is from Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey. Because being dead just sucks.
Robert (15:08.738)
We stand.
Being dead just sucks.
DJ (15:11.859)
Where is it, dude?
Darien (15:13.335)
Mm-hmm. But even before the underworld was defined and described, it was said to have rivers. That was a weirdly specific thing. There were rivers.
Robert (15:27.27)
I mean, that's just kind of the thing you do with ancient societies, because they're all vibing for the rivers, man. Mesopotamia, Greece, Egypt.
Darien (15:33.655)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (15:37.231)
Rivers are super important for civilization.
Darien (15:39.296)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Need water. This is, yeah, that is true. That makes sense, like how even in death there would for some reason be rivers. so speaking of Achilles, one of these notes we have about like, yes, there were rivers comes from the Iliad. After our good, totally platonic bro friend, Patroclus has died. So the ghost of Patroclus comes and tells him, you've forgotten me, my friend. You never neglected me in life, now only in death. Bury me quickly. Let me pass at the gates of Hades. They hold me off in the distance. All the souls, the shades of burnt out, breathless, breathless dead, never to let me cross a river, mingle with them. So the idea that like you need to bury him or he's not gonna be able to cross this river, dude. So you gotta, you gotta let him go.
Robert (17:07.714)
You gotta respect them burial rights.
DJ (17:07.952)
You need to perform death rights, dude. Like it is crucial for this shit, okay?
Darien (17:10.174)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Robert (17:15.304)
you got you got to put the golden drachma I forget if it's under the tongue or over the eyes they put the drachma so that they have Pat they have a fair to pay Charon
Darien (17:22.285)
Uh...
Darien (17:26.511)
Skipping to ahead a little bit. So Chiron, the archaeology shows that they would leave it in or around the mouth For Greece. I think other societies had the coins on the eyes
Robert (17:33.416)
Okay.
Darien (18:41.323)
So the rivers of the underworld, we got five of them. Sometimes six, if you count oceanists, which is just the ocean, but was said to be the river that borders the world, separating the land of the living from the dead.
Robert (18:56.358)
I can't wait because I want to go to England next year. I can't wait to cross the ocean and be like, man, I'm crossing part of the underworld right now.
DJ (19:06.451)
Yeah, you're you dude imagine you're crossing over with a Titanic sink
Darien (19:06.635)
Yes.
Robert (19:13.914)
Oh, the Titanic, they have a very special connection to the underworld.
Darien (19:14.739)
Why?
DJ (19:15.995)
I don't know.
with the underworld. Dude, imagine Percy taking like, or like Nico or Percy just taking a walk through the underworld. And they look aside and they're just like, is that the Titanic? Like, yeah, the Atlantic Ocean's actually, the bottom of it is over there. So, like there's a hole, there's a hole, there's a hole that leads to the Atlantic Ocean and just so happens Titanic fell right on top of it.
Robert (19:20.865)
The submarine people though, they have a connection with hell.
Darien (19:25.011)
Mm.
Darien (19:36.791)
It's right over there, just right there.
Robert (19:37.334)
I'm sorry, the bottom of the ocean?
Robert (19:46.702)
fucking wild. So yeah, there are five, maybe six rivers. There is the sticks.
DJ (19:49.819)
When Jim Cameron came to do his movie, it was a little weird, I gotta say.
Robert (19:55.202)
There are...
Darien (19:55.211)
He actually filmed all the time.
Robert (19:58.262)
That's fucking wild the
DJ (19:59.615)
He kind of deal with me to get like 50% but you know, oh yeah, are you kidding me?
Darien (20:00.712)
He would want to. He would want to.
Robert (20:04.882)
the ghost of Rose is just a paid actor. So there are, oh dear God. So there are.
Darien (20:05.216)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (20:09.08)
No, it's actually Rose.
Darien (20:12.595)
Okay, so the sticks, let's talk about the sticks. We're just gonna start with sticks. Like, let's not beat around the bush, it's sticks.
DJ (20:13.471)
Anyway.
DJ (20:17.803)
Uh, hatred.
Robert (20:18.691)
Uh, good old sticks. Uh, fame, I think most famous story is the one where Achilles' mom puts, like, you know, gives him a good old, like, dunk in the sticks to make him invulnerable except on the ankle.
Darien (20:20.416)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (20:30.951)
Yeah, that's a very interesting thing that she does. Because as DJ discussed in our Theatris episode, not really clear on why that worked.
DJ (20:42.823)
the plan.
Robert (20:46.242)
Yeah, I mean, sometimes you just have a crazy enough plan that you put into action and then it works and everyone, most of all you is like, wow, it fucking worked. Can't believe it.
Darien (20:58.219)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, she's like, damn, okay, sure.
DJ (20:59.207)
Dude, the plan was just pitched to Thetis. Like, that's crazy. So crazy that it just might work.
Robert (21:03.798)
Let's do it.
Robert (21:07.406)
Exactly. So yeah, just dunk your child so he is invulnerable except in the ankle. Listen, we all make the jokes about like why couldn't she just dip him again holding it from the other ankle So he's fully immoral. It's something symbolism something keeping your humanity something Downfall was his huma- his lack of humanity something
Darien (21:25.795)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (21:32.563)
There's actually another similar story in Norse mythology, but continue.
Robert (21:32.786)
Is that the s-
Robert (21:36.598)
The Styx is also, if I recall correctly, the river that the dead have to cross on Cairns' boat.
Darien (21:36.615)
Ooh.
Darien (21:43.863)
Sometimes, yeah, it is often the one that Charon will cross. Sometimes it's a different river. We'll get to that later, don't worry about it. It's often that one, and it is also the river that the gods swear oaths on. So many oaths. In the Iliad, going off of Robert Fagel's translation, it is the dark and terrible oath stream of the gods.
Robert (21:59.591)
God help us. They source so many fucking outs
Darien (22:13.595)
And Hera actually swears on the river, sticks twice in the Iliad. No, because the first time she does it is, we talked about this in our last episode about Morpheus and Hypnos, where she's telling Hypnos that if he helps her by putting Zeus to sleep, she'll let him marry one of the graces. And he's like, are you first real? Are you for real for real? No, I need you to swear that you're for real for real, because I've always wanted to marry her.
DJ (22:18.323)
Does she break them?
DJ (22:38.779)
Yeah
Darien (22:39.015)
And so Hera swears on the River Styx, and then later she swears on the River Styx, vowing to Zeus that she had nothing to do with something that had happened, which I think is like a loophole. So she kind of did, but she wasn't directly, that was like a thing Poseidon did that she may have set up for him to do. But she never technically breaks the promises. And then we see Calypso do this in the Odyssey, where she swears that she'll let Odysseus leave her island finally.
Robert (22:39.2)
Thank you.
Robert (22:54.894)
Yeah.
DJ (22:59.375)
Yeah.
Robert (23:09.234)
I find it funny that Sticks, the personification, you know, Sticks the character who torments Apollo throughout Child of Apollo, was given this job because she like... Wait, what?
Darien (23:09.343)
Uh
DJ (23:20.039)
She doesn't tell me what to follow, that's the point of the books.
Darien (23:22.923)
DJ, another time.
DJ (23:24.695)
I'm just saying, she doesn't torment Apollo, that's the point of the book, that's the point of the last interaction with her. Yeah. Like, it's not my fault, you did this, dude.
Darien (23:28.435)
Apollo torments himself.
Robert (23:30.314)
Right, yeah.
Robert (23:34.934)
Now my fault, you're the idiot who swore he wouldn't, what is it, sing or shoot an arrow again until he became a god and then broke his promise like 10 minutes later.
Darien (23:42.529)
Yeah.
DJ (23:42.717)
Pick up an instrument or bow.
Darien (23:44.831)
Yeah, just threw a temper tantrum unnecessarily because of your vanity and made a stupid promise you couldn't keep. Like you didn't even intend to keep it. Yeah, you made a vow, but you didn't even intend to keep it. So what's even the good of your ward if you don't keep simple things? Learn your lesson.
DJ (23:50.62)
Did the thing that gods do? Crazy.
Robert (24:00.694)
What a silly man. But I do love how Styx, for Thor, get this, for helping Zeus and the gods in the war against the Titans, she becomes the, a goddess, a Titan, what is she? She's the personification of the Styx.
Darien (24:18.351)
Yeah, so she is sometimes a nymph, sometimes a goddess, it kinda depends on the translation, cause she was the daughter, yes, she was the daughter of the titans Oceanus and Theus, Tethius, and so, yeah, so she is an oceanid, exactly, which makes her related to Amphitrite and Thetis.
DJ (24:18.707)
She's a nymph, technically.
Robert (24:23.739)
Oh, it's another Calypso scenario.
DJ (24:32.948)
So she's an oceanid.
Robert (24:37.966)
I mean, it would.
DJ (24:40.647)
There you go.
Darien (24:43.752)
But yeah, she was apparently one of the first to side with Zeus against the Titans.
DJ (24:48.211)
The reason it worked for Achilles is because that's her sister's son, dude.
Darien (24:52.451)
Yuck! God, he's like, well, I can't kill him. Like, I guess I'll just do what the opposite of killing him is.
DJ (24:56.147)
God damn.
Robert (24:59.342)
And then I guess Percy gets a pass because… son of Seagod. What does Luke get a pass then?
Darien (25:06.444)
I think there's a precedent that she's set with Achilles and the whole thing is like keeping her word. So it's like, well, if I said it'd work with this first kid, I guess it'd be shitty if I didn't work with the other one. So, okay, here we go.
DJ (25:08.667)
And he's like, it's a mother thing, fine.
DJ (25:18.183)
It's like, okay, you got the mother's blessing, which is like she did ask me and she asked if it was okay and she said it was fine. So that's what we're going to go with this. Yeah.
Darien (25:25.355)
So I guess, yeah. I actually super into this like female family thing. Like, like great aunt these, great aunt sticks. Just being like, all right, fine. If it's your, your mom's house, okay. Good luck to you.
Robert (25:38.276)
If your mom said so, take a swim in worse than acid water.
Darien (25:43.631)
Mm-hmm, because the...
DJ (25:44.443)
Just make sure you don't lose your humanity in there.
Darien (25:47.371)
Good luck, man. The River Styx is believed to be poisonous. And there was a legend that it is what killed Alexander the Great. Someone smuggled him some Styx water.
DJ (25:59.276)
Sounds like someone smuggled him a little mercury, dude.
Darien (26:02.435)
What?
Someone get, quick, someone get Emily on the phone. Just call up Monster Donut. Emily, I got a question about Alexander the Great. Did he drink mercury?
Robert (26:12.29)
Alexander the Great.
DJ (26:12.807)
Was he one of those guys that believed mercury made him immortal?
Robert (27:23.35)
So do you know if a god swears on the river Styx and breaks their vow? They're like rendered, I don't wanna say comatose, they're like just rendered, they're just like rendered a mobile for like what, eight years, nine years, something like that?
Darien (27:27.444)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (27:37.907)
Yeah, this is something that Hesiod outlined, because he's also the one that personified Styx herself. But yeah, it is, for whoever of the deathless gods that holds the peak of Snowy Olympus pours a libation of her water and is foresworn must lie breathless until a full year is completed and never come near to taste ambrosia and nectar, but lie spiritless and voiceless on a strewn bed and a heavy trance overshadows him.
But when he has spent a long year in his sickness, another penance more hard follows the first. For nine years, he has cut off from the eternal gods and never joins their councils or feasts, nine full years. But in the 10th year, he comes again to join the assemblies of the deathless gods who live in the house of Olympus.
DJ (28:22.474)
Just like Hephaestus being like, fuck, I'm sick of my family.
Darien (28:26.947)
Just need a break! A break and a reason for them to think they are like, Oh sorry y'all I broke a foul on the river sticks I have to take a year-long nap and then none of you have called me for nine years.
Robert (28:28.554)
I just need a break. Let me just go on and-
DJ (28:28.619)
I need a break from these fucking people.
DJ (28:34.675)
I'll... Yeah, I literally cannot talk to any of you guys for nine years, so I will see you later.
Darien (28:44.287)
And Styx being like, no, I didn't. I don't have a record. No, shh. I did. I promise. Please, please be cool. Please be cool.
DJ (28:49.799)
He's just like, he's just sitting. I know I was saying that he actually broke a thing, but it was some like minuscule thing is like, sure, I'll get that done by Tuesday, I swear out on the river sticks and he gets it done by like Wednesday or some shit like that.
Darien (28:54.67)
Oh.
Darien (29:01.187)
Go, no, and she's like you know man. It's it's a mild thing things come you don't know no. I'll take my penance I'll take my penance
Robert (29:01.968)
There's something so
Robert (29:09.195)
There would just be something so funny about-
DJ (29:09.667)
Well, like sticks is like if I pass for you I gotta pass for other people
Robert (29:14.135)
Yeah.
Darien (29:15.641)
I think it's funny if she's like, nah man, it's really not a big deal. No, no, it is. It is.
Robert (29:20.246)
Yeah, okay, you forgot to refill the Brita, like, it's fine. Nope, nope.
Darien (29:23.305)
It's time.
DJ (29:25.295)
Sorry bud, and then just like pass out for a year.
Darien (29:27.868)
Hahaha
Robert (29:28.236)
You said you would get the bill next time. Like, it's fine.
Darien (29:33.489)
No, no, it's really not. But yeah, I, I full...
Robert (29:35.913)
Uh...
DJ (29:36.071)
I swear it on the River Styx. It's not fine, I swear it on the River Styx.
Robert (29:38.816)
I swear on the River Styx, I'll change the Brita. I swear on the River Styx. And then like tomorrow.
DJ (29:43.707)
I'll get it by Tuesday.
Darien (29:43.711)
We don't have a Brita.
Robert (29:46.622)
I swear on the river sticks I'm gonna buy you a printer.
Darien (29:51.171)
I would have I really wish Rick Riordan used this in the books For for what happened to Zeus and Poseidon like the actual oh my gosh It's ten years Percy's just turned 12 the reason we had is he doesn't like Poseidon hasn't been around him much He's a little bit unconscious for like ten years
Robert (29:51.234)
drink some of that filtered water.
Robert (30:01.454)
year.
Robert (30:10.536)
Yeah.
DJ (30:12.711)
That'd been funny. He's been in a hospital bed and was able to be visited by like Sally Jackson.
Darien (30:12.747)
Like, that was some legitimate.
Darien (30:19.107)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh shoot like on them because he can't go to Olympus. He's like on the mortal realm
DJ (30:25.055)
Yeah, just chilling in the morgue where I'm like, I guess I'll be a dad to my kid. I don't know what
Darien (30:29.24)
Oh, what a different book!
DJ (30:34.191)
Personally, you're coming of age and your body is about to change a lot. Let me tell you what some of these changes are going to be. And then he just causes a fucking tsunami. It's like, this is what you're going to be able to do, bud. Isn't it exciting?
Darien (30:34.684)
Poseidon has to get a job?
Darien (30:48.836)
Yeah, go fish talk to the fish dad. I don't want to talk to the fish
Robert (30:53.326)
Talk to the fish, get him to pay me the five bucks he owes me.
DJ (30:57.127)
Coldfish are quite crude, like holding them as pets? Ridiculous, let's go see some fucking Barracuda, dude.
Darien (31:03.043)
It's actually very polite. Finding Nemo was a travesty. Bad name to Bayer code is everywhere.
Robert (31:07.746)
modes of travesty. Also, did y'all know that the river Styx is sometimes known as the river of hatred?
DJ (31:11.155)
They're polite to us, they're not polite to the... Sorry, continuous.
Darien (31:19.147)
Yeah, I like Duncan to trying to figure out why that is. And a lot of places were like, homophobia. A lot of people were like, oh, well sticks translates to hatred. But more rebelist sources were like, it means shuddering. So I don't, and like, I'm sure shuddering was most, yes, so that's what I was thinking. It's more of like physical, not like shuddering. But that also means it doesn't actually mean hate, but it is like the response to.
Robert (31:23.303)
Hammer for a beer.
DJ (31:26.318)
spicy.
DJ (31:34.451)
Shaking in Rage.
Darien (31:48.423)
something like unjust being done that results in that. It's a little bit more, I think, nuanced than just it is a river of hate. I'm gonna circle back to that later when I get to talk about Girl Goddess Queen.
DJ (31:51.949)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (32:03.799)
But honestly, I feel like the River Styx could be like its own episode, for real, for real, because there's just so much. Admittedly, the rivers themselves can be their own episodes, but we gotta keep moving. We got a lot of rivers to cover and then a lot of ground to cover. Mm-hmm.
DJ (32:09.683)
Yeah, there's probably a lot on it.
Robert (32:11.278)
There's so much about the sticks. Yeah.
so many fucking rivers we got the acron which is the river of whoa right yeah river whoa
DJ (32:24.847)
Yep, well and misery.
Darien (32:25.337)
Whoa, whoa, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Robert (32:27.698)
and misery.
Robert (32:56.438)
Akron, that is the river that Nico and Will go down in Sun and Star to go into Tartarus.
Darien (33:14.851)
Actually, I think it's Cocodus, which is the river of whaling? Yeah.
Robert (33:19.618)
Correct! There we go! No, what the fuck am I remembering Acheron from then? Was A-
DJ (33:22.775)
No, because it converges into Acheron later.
Darien (33:25.384)
Yeah.
Robert (33:26.163)
Right there we go.
DJ (33:27.877)
Like when they're in Tartarus, I believe it's the Akron they end up on.
Darien (33:33.683)
Yeah, so this is also a pretty early river, not quite as early as Styx. Sometimes this is the other river that I was saying that sometimes it's the river that Charon has to cross. Also, sometimes it's a lake?
Robert (33:47.426)
Just cross a lake. That's all you gotta do.
Darien (33:48.931)
Wonderworld geography is amazing.
DJ (33:51.311)
Love it. Ethereal.
Robert (33:52.195)
Just cross the lake and you'll make it to. The next one, I don't know how to pronounce the first version, but I do know how to say flag-a-thon.
Darien (33:55.555)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (34:02.911)
Yeah, it's like Pyroflagathon or Justflagathon.
DJ (34:06.751)
Yeah. Or phlegians.
Darien (34:10.259)
Why, DJ? Why?
Robert (34:10.402)
Fire like a thumb.
DJ (34:12.079)
What's up? I, dude, I'm on the page with rivers and I see a river flag-a-thon or river pyro flag-a-thon or river flag-ians.
Robert (34:24.994)
the Fleggy Rigor.
Darien (34:25.283)
Hey Riverflaggian sounds like a nickname for a chubby little toddler version of the river. Hey Riverflaggian! This is the Fire River.
DJ (34:31.494)
Oh
Robert (34:32.93)
The one fluggy boy. He's on fire. Literal fire. Mentioned once in the Odyssey and then was not mentioned again until Plato started writing about fucking wild.
Darien (34:36.615)
He's on fire!
Darien (34:45.355)
Yeah, in the Odyssey, in the Odyssey, this is just like Homer's like, yeah, this is a river that flows from the Styx into the Acheron. And then Plato's over here like, no, this flowed into Tartarus and this flaming river punished those who were physically abusive to their parents. All right, Plato go off.
DJ (35:07.313)
Don't be rude to your elders, guys. Be kind to your parents. They raised you.
Darien (35:09.28)
Yeah.
Robert (35:09.896)
Yeah. I guess there's also some versions, I guess there's also some version of the myth where drinking from the flag-a-thon heals you quote-unquote or keeps you like not dead. Is that that's just that's just one of Rick's, just one of Rick's OCs.
Darien (35:20.419)
I really think that's something that's modern author may have made
DJ (35:24.667)
I, the way that I buy that is the simple fact that it's like, yeah, everything in the Tartarus is just reversed, right? Your, your wounds, they don't heal. The water probably hurts if there was water, but the water is actually fire. So, yeah, I like it.
Darien (35:33.303)
Yeah. And listen, I don't hate it.
Darien (35:44.523)
No, listen, I don't hate that wild ass interpretation. It's just a wild ass interpretation.
Robert (35:50.57)
It's just a wild ass intro. It's not even the wildest Rick can get in his books.
DJ (35:50.876)
great.
Darien (35:56.235)
But, mm-hmm. So then we've got the River of Wailing. What is it? Cacitus, thank you. That's a lot nicer than how I was gonna say that. Yeah. Also only, also only mentioned one time by Homer, literally in the same context of Fligathon as flowing from Styx into the Acheron. And then again, Plato rolls up and is like, no, no. This was a circular river, and it emptied also into Tartarus to punish murderers.
Robert (36:01.782)
the coquitis.
Robert (36:06.318)
Cacitus.
Darien (36:30.563)
I'm sorry.
DJ (36:31.879)
Nice.
Robert (36:31.99)
Nice.
Darien (36:33.335)
That's what DJ does when there's too long of a pause and he doesn't have anything else he wants to say. He will just say, Nice. Get that song on the bingo card, folks. If you- you'll notice it now that I've pointed it out.
Robert (36:36.494)
You just gotta go nice. Nice.
Robert (36:43.97)
year.
Now I don't know about you guys, I forgot what the next river is.
DJ (36:52.583)
You forgot what the next river is?
Darien (36:53.251)
Uh, no, they forgot. Cause, cause you had to see it. Uh, which is DJ, do you remember what the next river is? Let they, I think this is my favorite next to sticks. Honestly. It's really interesting. It's the river of forgetfulness and oblivion named after the goddess of the same name.
Robert (36:56.929)
I... I forgot.
DJ (36:57.353)
Mmm, you hate to see it.
DJ (37:02.22)
Let's see...
DJ (37:07.651)
It's just fun.
DJ (37:15.016)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (37:19.479)
We talked about how Hypnos in the last episode has a cave from which this river flows.
and uh, oh, it's wild.
DJ (37:28.514)
Um...
Yeah, it's also what was it? What was the color of the river that was described?
Robert (37:35.306)
Isn't it like milky white?
Darien (37:36.607)
It's like Milky White. The water dripping from the branch in the Hypnos Kids' room is a Milky White. What are you looking at, DJ?
DJ (37:37.155)
It's not. It's not.
DJ (37:45.291)
Yeah, yeah, and that's why we... No, we were talked about it in the last episode. We were shocked that it's not Milky White.
Darien (37:51.041)
Yeah.
Darien (37:54.291)
Oh yeah, I just edited that episode. What color was it?
DJ (37:58.158)
Yeah.
Darien (38:02.323)
Oh my god, where is the Hypnos episode?
DJ (38:03.767)
I think it was like a darker episode or a darker, just a darker color.
Darien (38:07.731)
Yeah, hold on. Let me get into my hypnos notes real quick. Well, technically they're the Morpheus notes. All right, all right, all right. Main feed. Oh my.
Darien (38:25.771)
How?
Darien (38:34.286)
Oh my.
DJ (38:34.583)
It looks like it's black.
DJ (38:38.555)
I mean, I guess it is oblivion, right?
Darien (38:40.809)
Yeah!
DJ (38:45.711)
rolling up down the road like is this the river Styx or the river Lathie? Let's not get it wrong dude you gotta swim in it.
Darien (38:52.447)
Yeah, this is like really important. Okay.
Darien (38:59.051)
Yeah, I don't know. When did we talk about that? Because I'm looking at my notes and I don't have a color of the river in here.
Darien (39:10.891)
Well, I'm at a loss. All this is getting cut.
Listeners, if you recall, when this came up- Was it in the Thetis episode?
DJ (39:19.951)
It could have been in the Thedas episode.
Darien (39:22.331)
Okay, someone will have to tell us. Please, dear listeners, let us know. But yeah, so this is the poplar branch with water dripping from river from Lethe would become a symbol of hypnos. A first century Greek poet named Statius claimed that the Lethe bordered Elysium. And then Virgil, the Roman poet, would roll up in the Aeneid and claim that the dead who had the memories erased by drinking the water from Lethe would be reincarnated.
DJ (39:55.293)
Hmm, I guess that makes sense. If you want to be reincarnated, you gotta figure about your last life so it doesn't interfere with your new one.
Robert (39:56.746)
Yeah, I mean that sounds...
Darien (40:00.589)
Mm-hmm.
Robert (40:00.83)
yee we just gotta hope that you're good I just again watched I don't know how much of Adventure Time you guys have watched I just recently rewatched the episode where Finn dies and he like, like Jake, we gotta get reborn we always said we'd be reborn together again yee
Darien (40:08.021)
all of it.
DJ (40:08.976)
All of it, yeah.
Darien (40:14.551)
Together again.
DJ (40:15.887)
Oh yeah, it's a distant lands. Supposed to be the last episode of the Finn and Jake thing, but just like in general of distant lands, but stuff happened.
Darien (40:19.514)
That was so good.
Darien (42:12.779)
So those are our rivers, the landscape that crisscrosses the underworld, very dynamic. Do we want to move on to what I have called the stages of the underworld? Mm-hmm.
Robert (42:21.858)
year.
Robert (42:26.591)
Oh dear lord.
DJ (42:29.377)
Are you talking about just like the three that we all know and love?
Darien (42:32.683)
Yeah, I just couldn't figure out what to label them in the notes, just because each note has a size. It's organized. Levels. Yeah, could also be levels.
DJ (42:36.263)
the levels.
Darien (42:44.275)
What's your favorite level of the underworld?
Robert (42:44.323)
So we got.
Robert (42:47.778)
I really like the feels of Aspido, because they're just like, they're just like the place where like normal people go. You weren't a good guy, you weren't a bad guy, you were just a guy. You just did your thing. You died. Time to be, just time to be a guy. Just, just.
Darien (42:51.095)
Yeah?
DJ (43:00.783)
It depends on which underworld we're talking about, right? Cause sometimes like, well, depending on like, also like the iteration, like whoever is telling the story cause the, the fields of Asphodel in fucking the twisted tale, go the distance is so fun. So fun, right? And then like, but then it's a
Darien (43:04.234)
Oh yeah?
Darien (43:19.523)
Oh yeah! I forgot! Oh, it's so good! So good.
DJ (43:29.711)
What is it? The aesthetic of Tartarus and Elysium in Hades is just a really strong, I think the fields of Asphodel is actually the weakest aesthetically. Yeah. But just like just aesthetically everything. I hate it.
Darien (43:34.795)
Very good. Well, everything's on fire because Flagathon has like gone over, so everything's on fire. And just because they needed to like shake, we can't talk about this yet. Hold on, I gotta pin this for later. So yeah, so despite the underworld not having like a distinct layout, like a distinct geography in the earliest text, Fields of Asphodel are mentioned as being an element of the underworld in the Odyssey.
DJ (43:48.923)
Hehehehehe
Darien (44:05.995)
Like when Hermes, like after Odysseus and Telemachus have killed the suitors, Hermes takes all their souls and brings them to fields of Asphodel. And scholars actually aren't sure whether these fields are meant to be like fields of the Asphodel flower, or if they're actually fields of ash, because there's like some edinomical or edimol-
etymological interpretations of the phrase that's actually used in the ancient texts?
DJ (44:37.683)
I was actually about to ask, I'm like, is it like, because if there's no geography of the underworld, right, and for a longest time it was just a void of sorts, oblivion, if you will, the words are used specifically, probably didn't directly translate to fields of Asphodel or fields just in general.
Darien (44:47.777)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (44:57.551)
Yeah, there was like field of something. Actually this, it being Ash actually lends more to why it's on fire in Hades.
DJ (45:01.456)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (45:14.571)
Robert who said this is just when people, most people just, or most of the dead are just there because they didn't do anything so terrible, but they also didn't do anything like particularly noteworthy. So they just hang out here.
Robert (45:15.904)
No you're not.
DJ (45:16.495)
No, you're not. We're just quiet.
Darien (45:40.587)
Do we want to talk about Tartarus?
Robert (45:42.346)
Oh boy, Tartarus. Okay, so Tartarus. Tartarus is like, it's also sometimes another name for the underworld, if I recall. Like Hades. Some people consider it a different layer, you know. The deepest part where souls are punished and where the Titans were cast after they were defeated, which is...
DJ (45:45.043)
Curtis is just a fucking nightmare.
Darien (45:47.942)
Yeah.
Darien (45:52.311)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, like Hades.
DJ (46:04.349)
Mm-hmm.
Robert (46:08.383)
I need to know how bad some of it would need to be that like the underworld screening process, yeah.
DJ (46:12.519)
How about a human? Need to be that they get like, you're on the level of Kronos, my guy. This shit is abhorrent.
Robert (46:18.922)
You're on the level of crime. You know what?
Darien (46:19.783)
Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, you have Kronos. You have, oh my gosh, who's that guy that ate his kids? What, that killed his kids and served them to the gods? Tantalus. He's there, right? Because he did a really shitty thing. But also Sisyphus is there, and all Sisyphus did was trick Persephone that one time and then put Thanatos in a jar.
Robert (46:31.447)
Oh, yeah.
DJ (46:32.743)
to analysts.
DJ (46:38.652)
Yeah, I'll pour it.
DJ (46:48.663)
he mocks the gods yeah he mocked the gods
Darien (46:48.951)
to like get out of like being dead. And that was also deemed as being like to Tartarus with you. He mocked, he was made a mockery of the gods.
DJ (46:55.779)
Exactly. He mocked the gods. He shouldn't be. Yeah, exactly.
Darien (47:00.931)
So it really feels like you got your good place, your bad place, and your medium place.
And if you weren't as net neutral, you go to the bad place.
Darien (47:15.489)
Which leaves us with our good place, Elysium!
Robert (47:20.63)
which is, isn't there like mainly where the heroes went? Like the people who were super good.
DJ (47:27.41)
Yeah.
Darien (47:28.231)
Elysium is complicated because for a really long time, it actually wasn't considered to be a realm of the underworld. It was like, do you know in Lord of the Rings where the elves get on a boat and then they just leave and then Frodo gets to go on that boat and then just leave? It's kinda like that. Where...
those who were like favored by the gods got to go to this utopia place and were made immortal. And then like in time it rather than just being like oh the gods like you get to go there it was like oh well you have to be like a righteous person and then you get to enter Elysium. And it really wasn't until Virgil rolling up again in the Inni Ed where Elysium was made part of
the underworld, a place where those who lived righteous lives went.
Darien (48:33.819)
Uh, hey! Robert?
Robert (48:35.254)
Hey. Yes.
Darien (48:37.587)
You were in this episode where it came up the first time. Do you remember who was said to rule Elysium?
Robert (48:46.78)
No, who? I forgot.
Darien (48:48.707)
Kronos according to According to Hesiod and another writer Pindar. They both claimed that Kronos ruled Elysium
DJ (48:49.199)
Really? Oh, Kronos ruled?
Robert (48:50.395)
Right, oh my God.
DJ (48:58.739)
Holy moly.
Darien (49:00.427)
Wouldn't that be an interesting version of Greeks?
Robert (49:03.374)
Wouldn't that be an interesting place? If you thought you were in the good place and it was actually run by a bad guy.
DJ (49:07.48)
But is it the different Kronos?
Darien (49:09.855)
No, same guy. Absolutely the same guy.
DJ (49:11.212)
Oh, you know.
Robert (49:13.23)
It'd be a really weird thing if there were just two different guys named Chrono spelled the exact same way.
DJ (49:17.672)
The...
Darien (49:17.827)
Mm-hmm. The, uh, I mean, listen.
Personally, love to see.
opportunities for like reformation and redemption and not just punishment. So once you've served your time for eating your kids, then maybe you can go be king of Elysium.
Robert (49:31.102)
Right, right. Mm-hmm. Right.
Darien (49:42.587)
Although in the Odyssey, it was King Radamathus who was said to rule Elysium. We'll circle back to him here in a hot second. And then one more thing I wanna talk about in regards to Elysium is the Isle of the Blessed. DJ, what is the Isle of the Blessed?
DJ (50:01.651)
The Isle of the Blessed is a place that you, at the very least, within the Percy Jackson, this is how they describe the way to get there, is once you get to Elysium, you can reincarnate three times and if you get to Elysium all three times, you go to the Isle of the Blessed. We have never seen the Isle of the Blessed and I think it's described in one myth, I think you told me last time we brought it up.
Darien (50:22.089)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (50:26.743)
Yeah, I know what I didn't write it down, but it is described as being like we're playing They could just like hang out and like go to the theater and enjoy music Like really chill
DJ (50:33.811)
Fuck yeah, dude. Hell yeah. It's just like, you know, peak Greek society is what the Isle of the Blast is.
Darien (50:42.687)
Yeah. We'll say so. Athens. Yeah, I'm sure honestly the Athenians were like, no, but Athens. It's basically Athens.
Robert (50:43.822)
Yeah.
DJ (50:45.772)
Athens, but good. You know?
Robert (50:48.215)
Thanks for watching!
DJ (50:53.335)
And the Spartans are like, that's bullshit, why is it gonna be Athens? Sparta!
Robert (50:57.698)
Hmm.
Darien (50:58.315)
And the people in Thebes are like, this is some bullshit. Everyone's mad. But the Isle of the Blessed is actually just another name for Elysium in Hesiod's time. And once again, it was like a physical place you could actually go to. But again, this is just a wild ass interpretation by Rick Riordan. And what I also really like, I think that's an Eids.
DJ (51:01.882)
Yeah.
Robert (51:14.903)
Right.
DJ (51:25.007)
Is it part of the underworld?
Darien (51:27.928)
Um, about as much as Elysium is, in that it's just another name for Elysium.
Robert (51:34.242)
Just another name
Darien (51:37.631)
All right, so.
Now that we've talked about the places you can go, I think this is a good time to discuss how you go to each of those places.
Robert (51:47.926)
You have to get judged for your life.
Darien (51:51.056)
Mm-hmm. The judges of the underworld, Robert.
DJ (51:56.895)
They seem a bit partial to me, but I don't know.
Darien (52:00.002)
Oh, do they? Do they, perhaps?
Robert (52:01.134)
You got Minos, you got... I have no idea how to pronounce the other two, Jesus fucking Christ. Rhydemanthus and Aeacus? It's not Aeacus.
Darien (52:07.839)
I think Redimenthus is what I'm sticking with. And Aeacus, something. Yeah. Aeacus. Probably not that.
DJ (52:16.923)
Probably like Icus.
Robert (52:18.794)
Yeah. They are the judge.
DJ (52:20.907)
Yeah, probably that. What the fuck are you talking about?
Darien (52:23.928)
A-E-A?
Robert (52:25.954)
aches Yackus Anyway, so you got uh, you got minus you got ramadamadam and you got aces They're the judges of the underworld and they created the laws of the underworld which is
DJ (52:26.811)
Give me a second.
Darien (52:27.175)
Asis. DJ's on it.
Darien (52:36.091)
Nope. Yeah.
Darien (52:42.833)
Mm-hmm. Feels like a weird thing for there needs to be laws. Like at that point, why are you still having to follow rules?
Robert (52:49.974)
Listen, I know he's already been cast as a character, but now I'm kind of, I would love, I guess, okay. I would love for Litman 1, Rana to be one of these.
DJ (52:53.635)
EKS.
Darien (52:55.113)
EKS. Thank you.
DJ (52:59.343)
I've seen names spelled like that pronounced I, so leave me alone.
Darien (53:01.379)
Mm-hmm. That's fair. No, no, you're fine. I totally respect you, DJ. I just wasn't sure if you could see what we were saying. I thought you were picturing eyes. So, Lindman Wellmer, which one would he be? Would he be Iacus, king known for justice? He's minus. All right, so Iacus was a... So these were all mortal kings who, when they died, became judges of the underworld. So Iacus was a king known for his, like, justice, and he was the guardian of the keys of the underworld, which what?
Robert (53:09.447)
I... Yeah.
Robert (53:15.913)
He's minus.
Darien (53:30.875)
and the Judge of Men from Europe. And then, Radamathus was a king known for his wisdom, who was in some cases like Lord of Elysium, and Judge of the Men from Asia. And Minos, who is a king known for killing 14 Athenian kids every seven year, was the tiebreaker. And all three of them were sons of Zeus.
DJ (53:57.299)
It's a very cute piece.
Darien (54:00.695)
We'll say, as we discussed in our King Minos episode, that other stories about Minos, or maybe this isn't the same King Minos, outlined this guy as being a very good king, who also had the first navy. So, you know, there are, maybe he's not the guy, maybe he's not necessarily the Minotaur guy.
Robert (54:20.02)
Hmm.
Darien (54:27.647)
But usually he's the Minotaur guy, and Rick decided he was the Minotaur guy, so...
Robert (54:33.07)
Yep. Who was the other guy? Who was Rick's? It was Minos. It was Benjamin Franklin, question mark? Thomas Jefferson, which is worse. And who was the other fictional eyes? He had the three.
Darien (54:40.451)
Thomas Jefferson. Which is worse.
Darien (54:50.179)
Oh yeah, oh I didn't...
Robert (54:51.57)
In the Ryroid inverse, it's like a rotating council of judges. And for some reason one of them is Thomas fucking Jefferson.
Darien (54:54.57)
Yeah.
Darien (55:00.443)
He was clearly trying to pick, like, no, I found it. I found it. I was gonna say he was truly trying to pick, like, leaders who were known for their, like, academic and wisdom. I would put King Minos the Minotaur guy and Thomas Jefferson on the same level. I would not necessarily put this third one on the same level. William Shakespeare.
DJ (55:01.356)
Yeah!
Robert (55:24.936)
Oh, right.
DJ (55:26.999)
The playwright?
Darien (55:28.554)
No!
DJ (55:34.123)
That's just like, just somebody from hearing the names of the current judges or like, Hades is just like sitting there and he's going through like interviewees and stuff like that and whoever is his assistant comes up is like, all right, here are the next ones, here are the names. And it's like, we got Joan of Arc, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, just like going through and being like, and then we got like William Shakespeare and Hades is like.
Robert (55:53.23)
Hey dude, oh okay nevermind sorry.
Darien (55:55.318)
No, the high- no, the great- the diamond thief, William Shakespeare.
DJ (56:03.899)
the playwright?
Darien (56:07.388)
That's funny.
Robert (56:07.894)
It's sort of like that scene in Back to the Future where Marty tells Doc that Ronald Reagan's the president. He's like, Ronald Reagan? The actor? Who's the vice president? Jerry Lewis?
Darien (56:14.391)
The actor? That is the one!
DJ (56:15.652)
The actor? I watched that movie recently. It's fucking great film.
Darien (56:21.963)
It's a great movie.
Robert (56:22.754)
Yeah, fun fact Ronald Reagan when he saw that he were around it not because he found the Ronald Reagan part funny or whatever But because he found the Jerry Lewis part funny
DJ (56:33.637)
Big fan that's funny as shit.
Darien (56:36.619)
And now we spend a moment appreciating the fact that Ronald Reagan is dead. And we continue on. So this is a couple, I think I wanna just reflect on this, just momentarily, how if in the original Greek mythology, all of the judges are sons of Zeus. I feel like that has to mean William Shakespeare and Thomas Jefferson.
Robert (56:41.082)
Fuck yeah.
Darien (57:04.583)
are also by default sons of Zeus, as we have nothing else in the text to contradict this fact.
Robert (57:13.71)
I would imagine Shakespeare has to be, who's the guy to play right? Is it an Apollo? Dionysus, there we go. Okay, so it would have to be Dionysus.
Darien (57:19.403)
Dionysus.
Darien (57:23.239)
It would have to be Dionysus, except... Judge of the Underworld.
Robert (57:29.114)
There is unfortunately a pattern, yes.
Darien (57:30.679)
There is a pattern.
DJ (57:33.851)
Yeah, but is that does it just like so happen to be a coincidence? Has it been like, is there like, myth? Is there like written in a myth? Some like Homer or Plato wrote down and the judges of the underworld are always and have always been sons of Zeus.
Robert (57:34.23)
Ah.
Robert (57:43.482)
Probably not.
Robert (57:50.598)
sons of Zeus. Probably not.
Darien (57:52.087)
But all three of these mythological figures who were also then later named as the judges in the underworld are all sons of Zeus
DJ (58:00.227)
And that's because a lot of people gave reverence to Zeus, not at all because of their skill. So now that we have a lot of people who have more skill and Zeus's reverence is not nearly as respected in the modern day, why do we gotta respect it as our judge?
Darien (58:03.079)
Exactly!
Darien (58:14.659)
Ooh, dude, you're really just setting me up to talk about Girl Goddess Queens so much and I'm just living for it.
DJ (58:19.663)
Man, crazy. I don't even know that.
Robert (58:22.334)
We're gonna get there.
Darien (58:24.375)
So I want to talk a little bit about how the, not just how like, okay, so the underworld evolved in time, becoming just like shady place that sucks to be at because being dead sucks into like a bureaucratically like established system in which the living or which the.
DJ (58:43.407)
That gives Hades a fucking headache, dude.
Darien (58:46.847)
Yeah, it was way easier when all of the souls of the dead just milled around in one field together.
Darien (58:55.011)
The underworld as this system evolves, as the idea, the philosophy of being judged in death for your actions in life starts to take on. Because that's a thing in platonic philosophy. Plato's writing about all of this stuff in the fourth century BC.
And that's when you're seeing the underworld and the judging and the murderers being punished and these things like being established like in the past those who were punished in the underworld were just the people who would specifically slighted the gods so the Titans Sisyphus Tanelis but like a random dude who did shitty things to his folks just gonna die and end up with everyone else and It's a very tangible way
to see how myth changes to reflect cultural beliefs because myth in this context existed as a reflection to teach religion and cultural belief.
Darien (01:00:09.523)
And therefore changing the myths to tell your moderate interpretations is very valid because it should be reflecting the cultural beliefs you're trying to relate. Oh, thesis of the podcast. Welcome back. It's been a second. We are back, back to the underworld. So we got-
DJ (01:00:19.347)
Hehehe.
Robert (01:00:19.974)
the issues of the podcast. We are back.
Robert (01:00:27.658)
I think we should we should talk about some of the notable citizens.
Darien (01:00:31.343)
Let's talk about the, well I was going to say people, let's talk about the, uh, s- the, the citizens of No, the deities, the beings that live there. There was a lot, there were many, uh, Thonic gods. And I am going to name them and then we can actually talk about the two that I did, uh, specific filled out notes for because there were two-
that are very specifically active in regards to the whole being dead in the underworld thing, which is really what this episode is about. But I did want to name the other people of who we can call Hades court. Now obviously we've got Hades himself. And I want to mention that he does have a palace in the underworld, obviously. He's a king. Zeus has his palace on Olympus. Poseidon has his palace in the ocean. Edith Hamilton notes that it would be described as minigated and crowded with innumerable guests.
DJ (01:01:07.892)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (01:01:24.275)
Goodness.
Darien (01:01:26.807)
but no ancient writers wanted to describe it more than that. And that didn't stop modern writers from constantly trying to take a crack at it in ways that I just as many gated and crowded with guests.
DJ (01:01:36.624)
How do they describe it?
Darien (01:01:44.876)
And I think that's it.
DJ (01:01:44.919)
Nobody ever actually got to see the inside.
Darien (01:01:48.007)
Yeah. You also would have Persephone, Hecate, Hypnos, Thanatos, Nix, the Furies, the Fates, and Hermes was considered a Thonic God because he could just go in and out of the underworld. Yeah.
DJ (01:02:02.908)
Makes sense.
Darien (01:02:07.227)
And now we've got two, well, one more god and one more very good boy.
DJ (01:02:13.489)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:02:14.755)
Should we save the very good boy for a second? We must. All right, best for last. We are gonna discuss Charon, who I definitely have called Chiron more than once. Forgive me, listener, it's an accident.
Robert (01:02:16.806)
We must.
DJ (01:02:25.68)
Hehehehehe
Robert (01:02:27.03)
It's almost like you don't care on A-ha. Anyway, here's the fairy man of the gods.
Darien (01:02:29.864)
Ah!
DJ (01:02:32.051)
you don't care enough.
Darien (01:02:33.819)
No, yep, fairy men of the gods. I think I've already mentioned earlier how like the earliest versions like didn't always have him, but he's a big deal now.
Robert (01:02:45.706)
Yeah, so, um, he's the dude who will take you across the river sticks and or, uh, Acheron. Depend- I guess depend on the- depends on the day.
Darien (01:02:56.89)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:03:00.779)
Depends on the day, depends on the source, user's choice. Pick your setting.
Robert (01:03:04.406)
user's choice he'll take he'll take you across uh for is it just like a coin or is it like an amount of coins like does he have a set rate it's just whatever you have
Darien (01:03:17.047)
I think it's also user's choice, because it's like, in, like I said earlier, if it's just a mouth, you just have like a cup, I think it's just a couple of coins, and not even like nice coins, like pennies, essentially.
DJ (01:03:19.324)
I think it's a f-
DJ (01:03:25.699)
I would argue that it's as long as you get the death rights, you are able to pass, but if you don't, you have to wait the hundred years.
Robert (01:03:32.868)
Yeah.
Darien (01:03:33.227)
Yeah, because I think the death rights would come to include the coins. Because there were times when they didn't, so you just got the death rights you could get across, but eventually became like, oh, but there's a ferryman you have to pay. So that's when the coins became part of it. But yeah, like DJ, you're right. It's exactly, according to Virgil, a hundred years.
DJ (01:03:37.156)
Yeah, the coins and everything.
Robert (01:03:45.411)
Yeah.
DJ (01:03:52.115)
Mm-hmm, because that's the one that's like consistent between every iteration
Robert (01:03:52.202)
I do kinda like what Rick did, where he-
Darien (01:03:57.488)
Mm-hmm.
Robert (01:03:58.074)
I do kind of like what Rick did where he was like, yeah, if you don't have a coin, sometimes we'll like add a charge like the last charge to your credit card or it'll just appear in your cable bill or whatever.
Darien (01:04:08.451)
I appreciate that! That's a very functional system. There are workarounds.
Robert (01:04:11.543)
Yeah.
DJ (01:04:12.465)
They just get the cable your family gets the cable was like and an obal
Robert (01:04:18.37)
Honey... Honey, who spent sixty-two dollars on... What's a terrible movie? Um...
Darien (01:04:18.546)
No, what's an obal?
Darien (01:04:26.871)
Shallow Howl.
DJ (01:04:26.879)
Who spent $62? Hey, that's a great film. Great film with a good message.
Darien (01:04:33.083)
No, it's not!
Robert (01:04:34.576)
. Honey, why is there a charge of $62 on the cable bill for the soul of our dearly departed
Darien (01:04:39.743)
Yes indeed, Jay, it's a product of its time.
Darien (01:04:49.66)
You find out they're like you're just canceling like oh they've got to cancel their patreon subscriptions nice just one charge To a Chiron who is creating passage to the underworld. That's really weird
Robert (01:05:03.299)
Yeah.
Darien (01:05:06.547)
I wanna talk about just like how ancient writers did not wanna talk about where this dude came from. Like his genealogy? Not a thing. Don't worry about it. He's just kinda there. And that's spooky. Yeah. That is spooky as hell.
Robert (01:05:18.49)
Where's he from? He's from... He just exists.
DJ (01:05:19.152)
He's existed.
Robert (01:05:25.187)
Yeah.
DJ (01:05:25.915)
Came from the same place Oblivion did. Who knows? Let's try it. Ha ha ha.
Darien (01:05:28.683)
Don't worry about it, you don't want to think about it too much. But, and it's-
Robert (01:05:31.97)
When Zeus Poseidon and Hades are like splitting up everything, you know, they're like, okay Hades you get the underworld and Hades like his first day He like unlocks in a room. He's like man. This looks nice Charon's just there. He's like, hey, what's up? Who the fuck are you? Hey, I'm the I'm the boat guy
DJ (01:05:44.785)
There are things that were in the underworld before Hades even showed up
Darien (01:05:45.675)
I'm the boat guy. Yeah, yeah, but it's funnier. He opens the door and he's like, knows to expect like Hecate and Knicks and Hypnos and Styx. But Chiron is just, just the, yeah. I'm the boat guy. You got payment to get across? I think I own this now. You don't own my boat. Not yet, but you gotta get across first. Oh, okay. Um.
DJ (01:05:53.975)
Oh yeah.
I'm your doorman.
DJ (01:06:05.561)
Not yet, bud.
Robert (01:06:07.199)
You don't own my boat.
DJ (01:06:10.939)
Sounds like you gotta sign the deed, which is cross the river. Just extorting Hades for an obel.
Robert (01:06:14.243)
Hahaha
Darien (01:06:14.355)
Ooh, got it. Got it.
He's just like, I don't have, okay, hold on, hold on. What do I have, what do I have, what do I have?
Robert (01:06:25.031)
I have a yo-yo deal.
Darien (01:06:26.763)
Deal. Yeah, whatever, man. And just like, now, like, he's just really good at sick yo-yo tricks. Like, as he's waiting, just, he'll let you cross if you can teach him a new yo-yo trick. Yeah, that lights up.
DJ (01:06:28.21)
Take it, bud. I guess it works. I don't know.
Robert (01:06:35.269)
Mm.
DJ (01:06:39.294)
He's got like one of those dragonflies now.
Robert (01:06:41.967)
Yeah.
The first guy to teach him like walk the dog was probably revolutionary and then everyone afterward who tries to teach him walk the dog They're like dude, really? I know that one Yeah
Darien (01:06:48.291)
Mm-hmm.
I know that one. I can walk a three-headed dog. What's up? He's got three yo-yos on his fingers. It's called three-headed dog walk. But listen, I wanna just shout out the Italian Renaissance writer Giovanni Boccaccio, because as an Italian Renaissance writer would obviously have no qualms with inventing anything he damn well pleases, and decided that Charon was the son of Erborus and Nyx. Which, yeah, sure, why the fuck not?
Robert (01:07:22.362)
Fuck it, who cares? Let me make something up because no one had the audacity, no one had the courage.
Darien (01:07:23.467)
Fuck it, who cares?
Darien (01:07:28.371)
the audacity, the courage. Fuck it, wee ball. Last thing I just wanna talk about is that Charon is a, what is called a psychopomp, which is a term I'd seen a lot, but actually had no idea what it meant, so I finally looked it up today. And that is specifically a word that describes a being who escorts souls into the afterlife, and doesn't judge them, doesn't do it, just literally takes them from point A to point B.
DJ (01:07:30.803)
target we bought.
Robert (01:07:34.33)
Fuck it, wee ball.
Robert (01:07:46.979)
Yeah?
Darien (01:07:58.943)
And I was delighted that there's a specific word for this thing that appears in like folklore and mythology. That's just really neat. Just the one guy, angel, devil, creature who this is their whole job. Get on the boat. This looks like the dude's over there. So, and then finally, Robert, here we are. Best boy. Please tell us about Cerberus.
Robert (01:08:07.534)
Just the one guy. Just...
Robert (01:08:22.926)
The best boy.
Robert (01:08:27.622)
or spot. I know that's not actually the translation, but I do like the meme.
Darien (01:08:28.967)
Well, mmm, mmm. Ah.
Darien (01:08:38.335)
I do like the meme, the meme is very good.
Robert (01:08:40.798)
that just Hades names his dog Spot. So Cerberus is our favorite dog. He is a three-headed boy, but also he has more question marks.
Darien (01:08:44.343)
So, service.
Darien (01:08:51.671)
Sometimes.
Hesiod gave him 50 heads, Pendar gave him 100 heads, most artists said, who's got the time, and gave him three heads.
Robert (01:08:54.445)
Um, listen-
Robert (01:09:02.186)
Exactly. He is the son of Echidna who is also that would make him like the brother of the Chimera and the Nemean Lion, the Spinks, the Lyra, the Orth- the Hy- the Hydra, the Orthis. Damn, you kind of forget that Echidna really, you know, mother of monsters.
Darien (01:09:11.407)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:09:14.783)
Sorry, the Hydra. That was a bad time. This Lemian Hydra.
Darien (01:09:28.071)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And is sometimes a kidna is cited to being as a daughter of Sphinx, which in that line would make Cerberus Sphinx's grandson. And I love that.
Robert (01:09:38.562)
I love that too. One of the most popular myths involving Cerberus is Hercules being tasked to go down to the underworld and bring the three-headed doge to King... Oh God, what was the name we gave him when I was in that episode?
Darien (01:09:43.097)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:09:56.323)
It's just like a shitty cousin?
Robert (01:09:59.314)
No, we gave him like a specific like, we couldn't pronounce his name, we just like gave him a little nickname, I forget what it was.
Darien (01:10:01.388)
Yeah.
We did give him a nickname. I don't remember. Listeners, you can go back to the, what is it? The 12 memes of Hercules? Some goofy ass name I gave that episode because Robert was on it and I was like, ha ha, a bit.
Robert (01:10:11.482)
Simple as that, yeah.
DJ (01:10:12.706)
Jesus.
Robert (01:10:18.063)
memes.
Uh, yeah. So Hercules brings Cerberus up, the king shits himself because, oh my god, you actually brought Cerberus up from the underworld, please release him. And then Cerberus is like, okay, time to go home. Uh, Hades was okay with this, by the way. He's like, yeah, sure, whatever. Just don't hurt my dog.
Darien (01:10:30.119)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Darien (01:10:36.715)
Basically, yeah, he's like, yeah, man, if you can do it, do it. Just don't kill my dog. And the hierarchy's like, okay, that's fine. He did not receive punishment from Hades for doing this because Cerberus got home just fine for dinner time. Basically, yeah, just carried him. And you know, big dogs love to be lifted. They think they are small dogs.
Robert (01:10:46.817)
Lifts Cerberus like he's a puppy.
Robert (01:10:55.43)
Yee. And small dogs for some reason do not like to be lifted.
Darien (01:11:00.319)
Depend- yeah. The- our puppy loves. He wants to be held. He just wants you to pick him up. He just has a fucking three foot vertical, this dog, I swear. Uh. Mm-hmm.
DJ (01:11:00.799)
Ours does. He loves being lifted. He wants to be held so bad.
Robert (01:11:04.922)
He wants to be held.
DJ (01:11:10.003)
ridiculous.
Robert (01:11:10.018)
Now, as I joked earlier, popular text posts claim that Cerberus means spotted. No, it doesn't.
Darien (01:11:17.791)
No, it doesn't. This is, I mean, this is a theory, because it is connection to, it's a rock fact. It's a connection to a Proto-Indo-European word that sounds similar and means spotted, but most contemporary scholars have completely rejected this etymology. And it's like, no, that's not it. So there's no clear, concise agreed upon, what Cerberus means, but it's probably not spotted. I'm sorry, y'all.
DJ (01:11:18.288)
Hehehehe
Robert (01:11:22.603)
A game theory note.
Darien (01:11:47.655)
I'm sorry, it's not, Hades didn't name his dog Spot. But Mickey named his dog Pluto. That's nice.
Darien (01:11:58.007)
So you have that.
We get to talk about pop culture now. It's so good. Now, specifically, there are lots of depictions of like an underworld or like an afterlife, we're going to specifically focus on ones that are very clearly like more Greek underworld inspired and not just doing the underworld as a stand in for the word when they actually mean hell. Yep. Okay. Lore Olympus.
DJ (01:12:45.596)
Yeah.
DJ (01:12:54.587)
Yeah.
Robert (01:12:57.62)
E.
DJ (01:12:59.677)
Olympus has a very fun one.
Darien (01:13:02.536)
It's a very metropolitan, urban vibe. There are skyscrapers. There are coffee shops.
Robert (01:13:10.298)
It's just like if you took, if you took like Brooklyn and made it into the underworld.
Darien (01:13:17.023)
I was gonna ask, I was worried about, hesitant to be like, New York, cause I feel like, I don't know, Robert will tell me which one is specific.
Robert (01:13:20.298)
No, I also see the New York parallels, kind of. I would think like New York. I would imagine more Brooklyn. Or like maybe the bougie parts of Manhattan. That also works.
Darien (01:13:24.651)
But it's more Brooklyn.
Nice.
DJ (01:13:30.091)
I was viewing it as LA, but all right.
Darien (01:13:32.815)
Ooh, not LA. LA, well maybe if you took LA and crushed it with New York, it's just the buildings.
Darien (01:15:34.367)
I really like the underworld in the Lore Olympus. It's so, everything is so organized. But there's no, there's no Elysium.
DJ (01:15:36.655)
No, it's awesome. It looks great.
Robert (01:15:42.383)
Yeah.
Darien (01:15:48.063)
in the beginning, that's something we get. Like Persephone talks about how she wants to create a place in Underworld for like mortals to go. Because the Underworld is like, we see it as where like all the, the Thonic Gods live and that society and how it operates, but the actual place where the human souls go is very much just them like meandering and not going anywhere. So I love.
DJ (01:15:53.031)
Yeah.
Robert (01:16:12.878)
Right.
Darien (01:16:14.271)
Because I think there are traces of myth and story that say Persephone is the one who created Elysium, or that it didn't exist before she got there. And I really like that in Lore Olympus, she is actively like, I'm gonna build this shit, let's roll.
DJ (01:16:29.047)
Yeah, I mean, that's how Assassin's Creed Odyssey also had that specific kind of thing to it as well. The DLC, the first place you go to is Elysium and Hermes is there to guide you and help you. And he says, yeah, Persephone made it. It's her realm and you got to go talk to her if you want to go deeper.
Darien (01:16:47.848)
Ooh, that's really cool.
Darien (01:16:53.635)
I'm gonna save Girl with Glass Queen for later, because I'm about to pop off real hard on that one. So, uh.
Robert (01:16:57.902)
Well, you know what I'm gonna bring up?
Darien (01:17:01.124)
No, Robert, tell me.
Robert (01:17:04.29)
Again, it's technically bringing up StarCork, but fuck the AMPTP. Quickly to mention, once upon a time.
Darien (01:17:12.579)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's kind of hard with our... We aren't promoting any of these. We are discussing the influence of ancient story on modern pop culture. And it would not... We're just gonna talk about...
Robert (01:17:16.846)
with our
Robert (01:17:22.872)
Yes.
Robert (01:17:26.726)
Stand with the working class. Also, maybe just don't watch Once Upon a Time anyways.
Darien (01:17:29.385)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:17:32.551)
Also, maybe just don't watch Whistle Upon a Time anyway. Sorry, entering Storybrook fans.
Robert (01:17:35.35)
Like, like here,
Darien (01:17:44.295)
Oh my god. Such a waste.
Darien (01:17:55.18)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:18:02.031)
Not productive. Not, I would say, a productive arc. Not a particularly, like, interesting one.
Robert (01:18:07.47)
You had... How do you fuck up Camelot and Greek mythology? Like, ugh, okay, anyway.
Darien (01:18:12.867)
Honestly, in this- how do you back to back meth lookup, Camelot, and Greek mythology? Honestly. And- and- on one hand, yes, the- I don't even remember anything except one time they were standing on a bridge and had to be honest with each other about their feelings? What the fuck was that? A lot of blue, a lot of rocks. It just physically looked like a cave.
Robert (01:18:19.174)
Jesus, Louisus.
Robert (01:18:28.698)
Hmm.
Robert (01:18:37.59)
Yeah, which I mean, hey, I feel like there is there was something I read a long time ago. That's like Yeah, the underworld is just like a giant ass cave, but like a cave that goes on forever somehow
Darien (01:18:50.471)
Yeah, because there are like, oh, you can reach the underworld at the bottom of this lake, or there are entrances like through caverns and stuff. So yeah, okay. I think you also, for once upon a time, they, everything was operating on like a reflection of a Disney version of the story. So they were operating off of the version of the underworld that appeared in Disney's Hercules, which still be ass compared to what Once Upon a Time did. Like,
Robert (01:18:54.822)
Hmm.
Robert (01:19:05.134)
Right.
Robert (01:19:16.312)
Yeah.
Darien (01:19:17.303)
Disney's Hercules underworld is very much just like a hell. Like there is no Elysium, there is no souls being judged. They all just go to, I would say it's probably like the river of like, lamentation.
DJ (01:19:29.287)
The way that the way that the go the distance describes it is the moment you get there. And like, but when you die, before you make it to the underworld, and like the real underworld, when you're on Charon's boat, all your family that's in the underworld get notified essentially, so they can meet you when you go there. And then it's just kind of like a party when you show up that you get to be there for like, a day, maybe to hang out, get like have a good time. And then you go off.
Darien (01:19:49.216)
Mm-hmm.
DJ (01:19:58.959)
And then it's the land of minor inconveniences. Your clothes don't fit right. There's always construction off in the distance. You can never quite get enough to eat. It's just the land of straight minor inconveniences. And it's so funny.
Darien (01:20:12.339)
It's so funny. And it's also, for listeners who don't aware or like that transition wasn't like clear enough. So go the distance. DJ isn't just talking about the song in the movie. That is the name of a twisted tale book. That's like the, it's, this is the best one. It's what if Megara had to become a Greek God. We did a whole episode about it on Bunker Nine a couple of years back. It is the best one. But also in it, there is Persephone, amazing. And
DJ (01:20:23.591)
No, no, no. Yeah, yeah.
DJ (01:20:39.763)
She's a lot of fun.
Darien (01:20:40.967)
She's a lot of fun. She's crazy. She's just a little bit crazy. And so it's so good. And it there's this line I think DJ you mentioned where it talks about how Hades never makes the kids go on the boat. They get to stay in the fields.
DJ (01:20:44.559)
to touch.
DJ (01:20:57.371)
No, yeah, so no, they they're on the boat. And then there's like, it's a big area that's got the party and like a field of sunflowers, I think of the asphodels and everything. And if a kid dies, Hades does look the other way if they don't go away from the party area.
Darien (01:21:07.112)
Okay, yeah.
Darien (01:21:17.403)
Yeah, that's what I meant. Like he lets them stay in the field with the party forever. He never makes them go anywhere else. And I'm like, that's really nice, I think. Like that's just an interesting characterization.
DJ (01:21:19.911)
Yeah.
Darien (01:21:36.011)
But yeah, uh...
DJ (01:21:37.715)
Okay, so I'm trying to find a picture so I can actually use it. So My Little Pony, Friendship of Magic also had an underworld and they had to find Cerberus in an episode. So I'm... I bet Cerberus looks adorable. I was trying to find a picture... Oh yeah, that's right. He's a fucking bulldog. He's a fucking bulldog. Yeah, I love it. He's a fucking bulldog. I think that's adorable as fuck.
Darien (01:21:50.335)
Yes they did, DJ! Do you want me to share you a picture of Cerberus? Cause I've got it!
Nope!
He just looks like a chonky bulldog, which is fine. Like not to say bulldogs aren't adorable, but the show's full of pastel ponies, so.
Robert (01:22:04.826)
Hold on, you're good to go.
DJ (01:22:07.623)
Yeah, so I was trying to find a picture of the underworld since we're looking for specifically Greek under worlds apparently there is in fact a Fan-made series called my little pony friendship is magic underworld
Darien (01:22:12.788)
Uh-huh, it's Tartarus.
Darien (01:22:23.347)
I just straight up end up in like almost a deep dive on
DJ (01:22:26.115)
or no, friendship in the- friendship in the underworld. And I'm like, what the fuck?
Darien (01:22:30.239)
Yeah, no, my little pony fans went in, they took that and they ran with it. This is an extensive piece of fan culture. I had to pull myself out of it, like Percy imagining Annabeth ripping him out of the River Styx. Like I was about to lose myself in exploring this,
So, My Little Pony Friendship is Magic does in fact have a Tartarus. The ponies do get trapped there briefly in the end of season eight. I maybe did a Wikipedia deep dive on this. Don't worry about it, I'm okay.
DJ (01:24:33.692)
Very true.
DJ (01:24:48.983)
There were eight seasons, I stopped after four.
Darien (01:24:51.811)
I think there were more than eight, DJ. I'm pretty sure eight wasn't the last one.
DJ (01:24:56.915)
Goodness. I bet they were great. I bet they were awesome.
Darien (01:25:00.198)
Uh, I bet those two were fun. Yeah. I just didn't keep up with them. I want to discuss, hold on. Uh, my notes are all full of girl squirrel now.
Darien (01:25:14.391)
We should circle back to Adventure Time just real quick. Because it's got an underworld.
DJ (01:25:18.642)
Okay, it's got an underworld. I wasn't gonna bring it up because it wasn't really Grecian.
Darien (01:25:24.299)
It's not Grecian, but it does have different places where people go?
DJ (01:25:28.811)
It's got like 42 levels of the ender.
Darien (01:25:30.843)
Yes, and I think an underworld that isn't just one full of torment and two has different layers, all interconnected depending on like how you lived, qualifies in this sphere of influenced by Greek underworld.
Robert (01:25:45.86)
Yeah.
Darien (01:25:49.608)
Uh, yeah, it's just real good.
Darien (01:25:54.875)
I don't have any thoughts, I just wanted to shout it out.
DJ (01:25:56.427)
It's a lot of fun. Yeah, no, I mean, I was just about to go on a tangent about Adventure Time in the last episode, but it doesn't.
Darien (01:26:07.031)
Do you wanna go to the tent? Go to the tent, do it. Please.
Robert (01:26:07.183)
Come on.
DJ (01:26:08.395)
It's just how much I love it. It's straight up just how much, it's so much fun. If you guys haven't seen Distant Lands or Adventure Time at all, I highly recommend it.
Darien (01:26:17.683)
Wait, we can't actually recommend anything right now. I just remembered we're not doing that. We can't. No, we can't.
DJ (01:26:22.592)
I just bleep it out then be like I blank because let me tell you fuck dude it is it like I have watched Adventure Time for the better part of my life being able to get a very neat bow on exact and we know that like Finn has had previous lives too and the what is it
together again shows that he's always been with Jake. Jake turns into the tiger that Yoko, I think was his previous name, I can't remember, maybe it was Shoko. She had a tiger companion and Jake was the tiger companion. So it shows that he's always been with Jake and then they get reincarnated again. I don't know, it's just fun, yeah. It's just awesome, I love it so much.
Darien (01:26:52.032)
Yeah.
Darien (01:27:02.583)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:27:12.963)
Okay, can we talk briefly? So Adventure Time also has the concept of reincarnation, but you're not required to forget your life before you can reincarnate. But you just do, you just reincarnate. And sometimes you can tap into the memory, which is what Finn does in the episode where we find out about Shoko, because there's like a ghost?
DJ (01:27:17.104)
Yes.
DJ (01:27:21.767)
You just do.
Darien (01:27:35.083)
And so it also kind of implies that while you do reincarnate, pieces of your soul remained as that forever?
DJ (01:27:43.123)
To be fair, Shoko did get like, fucked up by the ancient Lich River.
Darien (01:27:49.235)
Yeah. And so that also begs the question, like, so she's one of Finn's past lives. So her soul is what Finn is, but also ghost?
DJ (01:28:02.647)
Yeah, um...
Darien (01:28:04.195)
That's not one time. She appears as a ghost in three different episodes. You know, you know, but.
DJ (01:28:06.415)
Yeah, no, I know. Yeah. Well, it might be referencing the same thing. In the three episodes, it might just be referencing that one.
Robert (01:28:09.141)
Hmm.
Darien (01:28:19.15)
After her death, Shoko appears to Finn as an amorphous ghost in The Creeps, King Warm, and The Vault.
DJ (01:28:24.795)
The vault is him remembering it. I know that much.
Darien (01:28:26.759)
Yes, but he's, yeah, that's the one where he finally remembers, but I think the other two are, Finn has seen this ghost a couple of times.
DJ (01:28:34.875)
have to look at King Worms specifically but...
Darien (01:28:37.447)
Anyway, I just think that's a very unique approach to the reincarnation thing. And it vibes with the unique approach that Adventure Time takes to the layers of the underworld.
DJ (01:28:40.918)
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, it's great.
DJ (01:28:50.117)
Mm-hmm.
Robert (01:28:50.235)
Hmm.
Darien (01:28:53.807)
Brief sideline to His Dark Materials where there is an afterlife, but it's like the proto version of the Greek afterlife where it's shady and it sucks and well shady as in like a place of like shrouds and shadow not shady as in like fun summer day shade and everyone's just stuck there together
Robert (01:29:08.358)
I thought you were gonna be like, not shady like, will the real some shady please stand up.
Darien (01:29:14.239)
Yeah, just kind of sketchy and weird. But that vibes with the whole Hizmet Tark materials thing. And I just wanted to shout out real brief because I liked the, when I was looking up stuff and I was like, oh yeah, this is Connect. This feels like at the proto mythology one and I want to drop that real quick because I don't think we see that a lot in pop culture because it's boring. And if you're going to do an after like an underworld type narrative and it's just shady like that, then
Your narrative probably isn't really about being in the underworld and doing adventure things. It's about something else.
Darien (01:29:50.999)
Did you talk about Hades for a bit?
DJ (01:29:53.351)
Hage is great. It's a wonderful game, I recommend it. Ha ha ha. It's got a, as I said earlier, it's got like a really sweet depiction of Tartarus. And I think it's, it is just so funny to me that Tartarus is the easiest stage.
Darien (01:29:54.971)
HAHAHA
Darien (01:30:03.927)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:30:09.936)
Like, yeah, it is, well it is like Zagreus' backyard.
DJ (01:30:13.711)
Like I- and I understand that, but it's the place of the worst.
Darien (01:30:17.023)
And it's like the, the... Yeah, but it's like the spirits of Elysium, I think are like the spirits of heroes.
Robert (01:30:19.686)
I'm gonna go to bed.
DJ (01:30:24.744)
I understand why the spirits of Elysium would be the hardest. They're the people who bested the people in Tartarus. But why is Asphodel harder than Tartarus?
Darien (01:30:30.7)
Yeah.
Robert (01:30:30.809)
Yeah.
Darien (01:30:33.971)
Maybe because the spirits and tartarists don't really want to keep you there because they're being told to by Hades and since they're being punished they don't really they're not really trying as hard as they could be.
Robert (01:30:43.886)
I like that headcanon.
DJ (01:30:46.199)
Everybody has to stay there. They are all being kept there. The spirits of Asofito can't go to Elysium. I think Elysium the only one that are enjoying this shit.
Darien (01:30:49.632)
Yeah.
Darien (01:30:58.035)
I already said my one hatey thing about like why is Asphodel on fire? Oh wait, if the interpretation might actually mean ash, that's so interesting. Also, you need like a fire level, right? Like otherwise, visually you have to have something else, I guess.
DJ (01:31:01.862)
Yeah, and I understand why it's on fire. I understand why it's on fire. I guess.
DJ (01:31:11.891)
If I remember correctly, here's if a hammer watch doesn't have a fire lever, but that's neither here nor there, I guess.
Darien (01:31:16.471)
I don't know what to tell you. You can fight Charon in Hades. If you go to him and you see a bag of gold behind him and you try to take it, he drags you into like the deepest pit of Tartarus and you have to fight him and he will almost always kick your ass.
Darien (01:31:41.983)
But if you go and talk to Nyx about it later and Zaggers, I feel kinda bad about it, I don't know, I think I fitted him, Nyx will be like, no, I actually think he had a great time. Like, he actually loves that, he respects you so much.
Robert (01:31:49.903)
Hehe.
DJ (01:31:51.72)
Here's Garrett. Dude, I got a fucking, I got a goddamn the, what the hell is it called? Prophecy? To beat him twice in a row. I beat him once and I went at him again and I didn't get nearly as good like stuff. So I lost. It pissed me off.
Darien (01:32:05.959)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's a bummer. Yeah, that game is a lot.
May I gush, please? May I gush about Girl Goddess Queen, please? Okay, so Girl Goddess Queen, I've talked about it before, I will talk about it again. If you leave us a happy review, screenshot it, and send it to our email at musumethology.com, send it to our email, musumethology.gmail.com, you may win a copy of this book that I will send you. It's great. The whole premise is Persephone going to the underworld.
Robert (01:32:23.982)
Yes, of course.
Darien (01:32:45.655)
for the first time and what that story is and everything about it's very cool. But two things I wanna talk about specifically in context for this episode is when Persephone gets there, it very much is that empty, all the souls are together type underworld. And as she's kind of exploring where she's at, Persephone encounters the souls of those who met terrible fates. And she encounters this one woman who is terrified.
Like the soul is so scared. And Persephone realizes like how she died was like horribly and in fear. And she tries to comfort her. It's like, no one else can hurt you here. And the soul of this woman is like, you don't understand, they're down here now too. I am forever at risk of seeing and running into them again down here. And Persephone's like, wait, that's fucked up. Hold up. And so she's like, we need to separate the souls.
Robert (01:33:30.36)
Oh f-
Darien (01:33:43.687)
and she tells Hades about this. He's like, okay, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think just helping the souls is actually the full reason why you wanna do this. And she's like, okay, fine. I also wanna completely undermine the system of Olympus. Because her whole thing is like, we need to punish people who did bad and reward the people who did good. And if that, if the humans know that if they live their lives causing harm,
DJ (01:34:00.647)
Hehehe
Darien (01:34:13.195)
that they will be punished and death? Then why will they continue to worship gods who cause harm? It's like you were saying earlier about, well, back then we really cared about Zeus, but in the modern era, Zeus kinda sucks, don't be like Zeus. Why would you all the judges be sons of Zeus now? That's exactly what Persephone and Girl Goddess Queen is trying to do.
Robert (01:34:30.49)
or not.
Darien (01:34:40.955)
It's remarkable. This book, so good. If you can buy it, buy it. If you aren't where it's sold, leave us a review. Tell us why you like the show. Send us a screenshot. Send that screenshot. Take a screenshot, send it to our email. Let me potentially send you a free copy of this book. Not affiliated with the publisher. Just a fun thing we're doing. And, uh, so that's, I think a really cool take on the underworld. Like you live, like the book is like literally seeing Persephone and Hades.
create the underworld. And it's cool. And what's also really cool is before they do that, there are already all of the rivers who you get to meet. Like
DJ (01:35:21.399)
I mean, that's awesome. But I mean, as we said earlier, the rivers have been there since it was oblivion.
Darien (01:35:27.615)
Yeah, exactly. So that's cool that in this book, like B. Fitzgerald, the author, like had that in account. Like the underworld is just this, but the rivers have always been there. And that's very, Fitzgerald clearly did a ton of like research and did a lot to put this together, her story together. It's very cool. Can't recommend it enough. It's a book. I can recommend it. Woo. Uh, but we get to meet all of the goddesses of the rivers, including Sticks, who is my favorite character in this book.
Like she is, she knows everybody's secrets because she just inherently knows everybody's secrets even when they swear it or not, like she knows them. And so she and Hades are like best friends because he has to be her best friend. She knows all his secrets, but not where he keeps the wine. She doesn't know that secret. But I think my-
Her introduction is like one of the best introductions of any character I've read in a long time and I strive to create such a good introduction for a character because Persephone goes to the underworld of her own free will and to make sure nobody finds out that she's there, Hades dismisses his entire court. And when Persephone goes out, she creates a field of Asphodel flowers to fuck with Hades. And then also she sees the river of sticks and creates a sticks flower because she's inspired by it.
DJ (01:36:37.107)
Mm-hmm.
Darien (01:36:48.903)
And so Sticks knows there's like a goddess in the underworld. And so she rolls up to Hades' palace and like chews him out because she's like, I cannot believe you would kidnap this girl. I cannot believe. It's like, she's so angry and she's so disappointed in him. And Persephone comes out. She's like, nope, he didn't do that. I came with my own volition. And she like grabs her and looks at her and is like, you and I are going to take a walk. We're just going to take a walk. It's all cool here. But one really cool, love to see.
women defending women. But I think it also serves in the conversation, because I covered this book on the remit episode, DJ was not there, but my girlfriend Kelsey was. And we talked about the scene, Kelsey pointed out how it's used mechanically to demonstrate how Hades' realm is so different than Zeus' because Athena would never talk to Zeus that way or stand up to Zeus like that. But the fact that Styx has no qualms about doing that
Robert (01:37:20.675)
Absolutely.
Darien (01:37:48.899)
It's the realm and the way. Because even afterwards, when she sticks, is like, oh, you can trust Hades. He's a good guy. And Brosephine's like, you thought he kidnapped me and you were ready to kill him. She's like, don't take that seriously. I'm the goddess of hate. And talking earlier, we talked about hate and it being that shuddering rage, that response to injustice and broken promises. She's angry because she perceives Hades has like.
Darien (01:38:12.787)
done something she would never believe he would actually do because he's in this character and this book is not that kind of person. And so it's very, I love Styx. I briefly considered being her for our literary themed Halloween party that we're throwing that Robert will be at because they're coming to town.
Darien (01:38:42.103)
Thought about bringing Styx, I am instead going to join my girlfriend and her roommate in being hyper-specific Twilight vampire scenes.
Darien (01:38:52.611)
It's going to be a good time.
All right. Do we have any other? We've been here for 90 minutes. Do we have any other underworld thought? Whoa, DJ, what? I wasn't prepared.
DJ (01:39:02.811)
Yeah, actually, so Cerberus and Charon are both in Smite. Charon's actually very new. He came out a couple updates ago. Both a lot of fun, both guardians. Charon's arranged a guardian, which doesn't happen often. There's only been three, two now, because a while back they made Hades a mage.
Darien (01:39:11.351)
Whoa!
DJ (01:39:27.299)
Yeah, both a lot of fun. Service, he's a guardian. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Both really fun. Both have, well, Charon doesn't have any skins yet, but Service has got some fun ones.
Darien (01:39:27.907)
And what's Cerberus?
Okay. Oh, you said both? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robert (01:39:31.938)
little guy.
Darien (01:39:40.235)
Oh my God, what's your favorite Cerberus skin? I'm looking it up right now.
DJ (01:39:44.007)
There's two, there's Pup Patrol, as well as...
Robert (01:39:46.676)
Oh
DJ (01:39:51.383)
Cerberus Smites
Darien (01:39:54.79)
That's so cute!
Darien (01:39:59.059)
Hold on, I need to see what he looks like for comparisons. I just looked up Pup Patrol first. Okay, very cool. Oh, he's even got the snaky tail that we don't often see. That's very good. Okay, Pup Patrol is very good.
DJ (01:40:03.61)
Yeah.
DJ (01:40:07.04)
Yeah, yeah, let me see here.
Robert (01:40:12.838)
PAP Patrol.
DJ (01:40:13.535)
It is... Goodness gracious... No... War Maker!
Darien (01:40:30.547)
Let me... Oh, he's got a lot. Oh, he's just like a robot.
DJ (01:40:32.323)
I like, yeah, he's got a lot. I specifically like, yeah, he's also got the RuneScape skin, black dragon, king black dragon. The reason I like War Maker a lot is because his animations are different. So he's like rolling around on the wheels. Yeah, TanaMighty is so goofy.
Darien (01:40:41.855)
Mm-hmm. Oh, that one's cool. It looks very.
Darien (01:40:47.204)
Oh, okay, that makes sense. I just looked up one called Dino Mighty.
He's like a little cartoon dino.
DJ (01:40:55.821)
Yeah.
Robert (01:40:56.482)
Oh Mighty! That is an alternative name for one of Ben Tennyson's transformations.
DJ (01:41:00.207)
And then Charon's default voice pack sounds like a pirate and I love it.
Darien (01:41:03.732)
Hahaha
Why does he sound like a pirate?
DJ (01:41:09.631)
I couldn't tell you, but he sounds like a fucking YAR-MAY-DEE pirate, you know? It's awesome.
Darien (01:41:14.859)
You know, I'm not even mad. I actually, for some reason, think that works.
Darien (01:41:54.339)
Charon doesn't say anything in Hades. And so I never really thought about what I would want him to sound like, but a pirate is actually the correct thing. It's the one thing Hades got wrong, is that actually Charon should be a pirate.
DJ (01:41:57.807)
No, he groans and moans.
DJ (01:42:03.195)
Dude there on Yeah on um I Was kind of hoping that there would be a place to play voice lines here on the Smite page. Oh Yeah, here it is Charon voice lines Listen to some of his voice lines
Darien (01:42:22.283)
Okay, hold on, I gotta get, all right, let me get back to the page, let me get back to the page.
[CHARON SMITE VOICE LINES]
Abandon all hope! The Underworld CALLS!!
Darien (01:43:00.447)
He does sound like...
DJ (01:43:02.603)
He's a Ya Madey ass pirate dude, it's fucking awesome.
Darien (01:43:10.455)
The Underworld calls a bull-
DJ (01:43:13.307)
Yeah, you summon a wave of the river of sticks.
Darien (01:43:17.315)
This is a pirate's. He's just a pirate's.
DJ (01:43:20.869)
He's a real ass pirate. It's fucking awesome. And he like rolls around on his boat. It's great. He just like paddles across the battlefield on his boat. It's awesome.
Darien (01:43:26.435)
Mm-hmm. DJ.
Darien (01:43:32.223)
DJ, thank you so much for sharing Pirate Chiron with us today. I appreciate it so much. Thank you.
DJ (01:43:38.419)
course.
Darien (01:43:40.175)
Uh, Robert, did you have any surprise last minute cards you wanted to play?
Robert (01:43:44.303)
No, I do not.
Darien (01:43:45.935)
Okay, well then, uh, let's go on through- Oh, we don't have the gift shop anymore. Wow, I don't know why I almost said that. Uh, we've never had the gift shop. That's- no, camp store. What do we do? Uh, we don't- uh, hey, what do you want to plug? You said earlier you didn't have much, but, uh, do you want to- yep.
DJ (01:43:54.207)
We haven't had to give a shot for a minute.
Robert (01:44:03.674)
Just the meme page, just, good old the dam meme page. Dam spell D-A-M.
Darien (01:44:08.819)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Link to that, obviously, in the show notes. I'll go ahead and link to the other podcasts that you're a part of too, Robert. They aren't ongoing, but when they come back, listeners, you will be able to be on the cutting edge of the trends.
Robert (01:44:22.502)
Hell yeah.
Darien (01:44:25.035)
And I think that's everything. I mentioned it like four times earlier, but a reminder that we are doing a review rally, I'm calling it. If you like the show and think it's worth your time, which I'm assuming you do, because you did just listen to what was at least a 90 minute episode, if not longer, depending on what's gonna look like when I finish editing it. Maybe you think other people would like the show too.
And if you think that, maybe you'd like to leave a review on wherever you listen to your podcast. We'll even take a rating if you just listen on Spotify. Just let people know that this is a show that is worth their time, because that is a really great way when people are looking for other Percy Jackson podcasts, mid-podcasts. It's a very full party zone and I love to be a part of it. But people need to know what they should actually listen to. Tell them they should listen to us. And that would be really cool if you did that. And if you take the time.
We'd love to shout you out. So send us a screenshot so we can definitely shout you out and thank you on the podcast. And then also potentially send you a free copy of this really cool book that I promise you're gonna wanna read because I'm not gonna stop talking about it. I'm really not, especially in these next run of episodes,
DJ (01:45:34.619)
Thank you guys so much for joining us.
Darien (01:45:49.951)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Robert, again, for joining us. You are definitely our most reoccurring guest. You are essentially a guest co-host at this point, I think, as you have been upgraded. Guest co-host Robert of the dam meme page. We always appreciate. And then thank you again, listeners. Until next time, don't be like Zeus.
DJ (01:46:10.055)
Don't be like Zeus.
Robert (01:46:11.034)
Do not be like Zeus.