Story 93: It’s Always Sunny in Alfheim (w/ Elliot from The Demigod Pod)
“That’s quite the glow up.”
It’s a brand new guest! Elliot (any) from The Demigod Pod joins the show to expound on their observations about the gnomes in Medusa’s garden. What better time to do so than in an episode about dwarves and elves in Norse mythology?
Other topics include tricky homophones, some sweet dwarven crafts, casual homicide, the differences (if any) between dwarves and dark elves, Alfheim being uncomfortably Antebellum, pondering the art of turning eyes into jewels, whether Medusa could permanently petrify a dwarf, and more Lord of the Rings/Hobbit inspirations than you can shake a cursed ring at.
Get more Elliot at https://linktr.ee/thedemigodpod
Check out the video essays Elliot referenced in this episode:
From Tinkerbell to Fae Smut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrXRDj1N07I
Let’s Talk About Fae: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuRCEdmP0LE
Learn how you can support disaster relief efforts following Hurricanes Milton and Helene with the American Red Cross: https://www.redcross.org/
Spoilers for SMITE, Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End, Elfquest
Content Warning: This episode contains mentions of and conversations about death, racism, colourism, and murder.
Moss Lawton’s Hellaween Patron-Voted Bonus Episode available now on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/musesofmythology
About Us
Muses of Mythology was created and co-hosted by Darien and DJ Smartt.
Our music is Athens Festival by Martin Haene. Our cover art is by Audrey Miller. Find her on Instagram @bombshellnutshellart
Love the podcast? Support us on Patreon and get instant access to bloopers, outtakes, and bonus episodes! Patreon.com/musesofmythology
Tell us what you like most about the show by leaving us a review at Lovethepodcast.com/musesofmythology
Find us @MusesOfMyth on Instagram. Find all of our episodes and episode transcripts at MusesOfMythology.com
Darien (00:00.172)
Music of Mythology is a spoiler-heavy podcast.
That's an understatement.
Darien (00:14.36)
Damn it, Walmart doesn't have my potatoes.
Just go in and grab a bag of potatoes.
I don't know, they'll replace it something. I just needed a bag of russet potatoes, but now I'm worried they're gonna replace it with like sweet potatoes or something stupid like they do. Okay.
You're welcome.
DJ (00:32.92)
you
Darien (00:47.16)
Welcome to Muse of Mythology, a podcast where we explore how ancient myths become part of modern pop culture through the lens of Rick Riordan's, Magnus Chase, and the gods of Asgard. This is story 93. Need a valier? Alfheim? I'm your co-host and podcasting muse Darian Smart. Joining me is my co-host and brother DJ.
first.
DJ (01:04.174)
How's everybody doing today? I'm DJ The Muse and I got a lot on my plate recently, you know, too many games are coming out. I gotta play through all of them. sucks. Honestly.
What a problem to have. Is it just the Dragon Ball game?
No, it's black no, Kong is Final Fantasy six sixteen that's coming. Well, like just came out on PC
I see, okay, think we need to muse about this in the garden for a moment.
you
Darien (01:34.85)
DJ, this is gonna be a little bit more of a somber garden experience. So as I'm sure a lot of our listeners are aware, especially if you're in the United States, but globally as well, the southeast of the US was recently bombarded with two massive hurricanes, Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton. And it was a disaster, to say the least.
Yes.
DJ (02:01.194)
very worrisome there was a obviously a lot of damage and flooding it's it's scary situation for sure
And we personally have, well, DJ has colleagues in the area, but I have personally like very good friends in the area. AJ from our sister podcast, Stand By Line, Megs, who's been a guest on the show.
Lachlan who lives down in that area was a past guest of the show. A lot of people really care about their family members and just other human beings in general. So this month for our Patreon donation we will be donating two relief efforts to help aid in the recovery and support for these communities.
We have 10 patrons so we will also be donating $10 on top of the 10 patrons to make it around 20.
There are number of organizations that are working in the area. At the time of recording, we haven't actually picked which one we're going to donate to. I'm going to reach out to our sister podcast, Stand By Line, who's also donated to relief efforts, and identify where our donation can do the most good at this time. By the time the episode airs, we will have done that. You'll be able to find a link and more information on how you can help these communities down in the show.
DJ (03:11.022)
And now back to the show.
Darien (03:15.352)
DJ, we have a guest!
That was-
We have a new guest! DJ, why don't you introduce our guest? And where is Elliot from, DJ?
I this Elliot.
The UK!
Darien (03:30.35)
that was mean of me. I'm sorry. We have Elliott from the Dimmy God Pod, who I will let them decide whether or not they want to reveal their geographic location on the podcast.
yeah, I'm fine. I'm French.
Which was most insulting thing you could have said, DJ. They're from the UK.
Well, it's not technically false. I have a British passport, so...
It's late with it.
Darien (03:59.086)
Well, look at that how bougie.
Citizenship.
Yeah, yeah, I'm French. We say it very explicitly on our podcasts, so we don't hide it. know the Americans tend to not like the French.
I thought y'all didn't like us! It's just been a misunderstanding the whole time and we could have been friends?
No, I think the French... Everyone equally.
DJ (04:24.182)
I think it's
Fair I mean we did team up against the British and so I feel like we could really get back to that energy if we tried
They gave us the Statue of Liberty.
Okay, creating international treaties is not what this episode is about. This episode is going to be about elves and dwarves in North mythology. Elliot, you asked to be here. Tell us about your Rick Riordan verse affiliation.
how I got into...
Darien (04:56.354)
Yeah, how did you come here? Record screech? We're wondering how you got here today.
Well, my first association with Rick Riordan was actually in the UK, ironically enough. And I was at McDonald's, I think, with my family. And they were giving the first Percy Jackson film as a DVD, like when you got the Happy Meal.
McDonald's? They gave you the movie?
Yeah, and they used to do that in the UK. They would give like a free DVD every time you got a happy meal or something.
my god, I need to reflect on this for a second. That's... Please go on. Wait, are you telling us that your first experience to Percy Jackson was the Percy Jackson live-action movie that you got in DVD at McDonald's?
Elliot (05:56.974)
And yeah, I watched it. I liked it a lot at the time. was very young. I thought it was really cool. And so I think I asked my parents, like, is it based on a book or something? And they said, yes. So I went to Waterstones and bought the whole series and read it immediately.
Yeah, because you are a youth and we're able to just read all the books all at once and not wait for them to come out every summer.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think...
Big fan of that was great and it wasn't even and it wasn't like I mean I was growing up as they were coming out and I was reading trials when it was coming out But I stopped reading trials and it was just completely out. I'm like great and that's how it was for every other book How it started stop him and then Suddenly when I get back to them what they're all out
incredible.
Elliot (06:50.678)
Yeah, I think Chalice, like the senior trilogy is the only one where like I read it before the thing is finished. Yeah.
Yeah. So yeah. Wow. What a luxury. If you so if you were a part of the rest that led down the whole track of everything. And now you also do Percy Jackson podcast because it is inevitable. Everyone will do a Percy Jackson podcast at some point. We all have. It's so good.
It was for university. As a university.
yeah, you told me about that! It was a plot! That's so cool!
Yeah, and we won money actually. We won like a 150 euros. it was a contest, like competition thingy for my university. I think we got like 10th place or something out of like hundreds.
Darien (07:45.806)
That's so cool!
That's incredible.
We... yeah, I think we just like use the money to pay for a year of riverside.
So good though Riverside is expensive
And yeah, think, yeah, that's basically what I think we won like best dynamic duo or something. was fun, but basically what we had to do was do a
Elliot (08:15.426)
podcast that was linked to our major and my major is English literature and the theme was childhood and I was like English literature childhood what is a book I like to read as a child and so I thought about person Jack's
Yeah! Well well done. I'm so glad you did that. I'm so glad you're in the space with us. That's so cool.
Yeah, the community has been absolutely amazing this past year, like even just on... Yeah, I don't know if we're allowed to, like you can cut that out, but like just on Discord and stuff is... Yeah. Because Robert told me that it was a secretive thing.
No, we talk about the Discord all the time.
Darien (09:02.252)
Well, if that was true, Robert should have told me that exactly four years ago when they invited me to the Discord. So we definitely talk about how there is a Percy Jackson podcasters Discord all the time. So.
Well, it's absolutely, yeah, the whole community aspect has been amazing. I never knew I could, yeah, meet people from all around the world.
Yeah, that is maybe the most special part about it is suddenly turning around being like hey I have a lot of friends like friend friends like people that I traveled to see who traveled to see me who when we're in the same area make plans to connect and that Feels really special and it's cuz we all like this same kind of silly Mythology book series that means so much to us
And that's awesome.
Yeah.
Darien (09:56.91)
All right, so Ali, here's a fun question that I love to ask our guests. If you were in the Ryarden verse, where do you think you would exist?
Elliot (10:10.456)
I I would be probably in Camp Half-Blood because I have always been very close to Greek mythology. I go to Greece almost every year.
Damn, that's It's so French. It's so European.
So European.
Yeah, like you said on our podcast, we're in the same area.
I did say that! It's true. It's like me going to Texas. It's a thing, but not a big thing. Okay, so Cape Half-Blood, which cabin?
Elliot (10:48.206)
Hmm.
Pretty much, actually, yeah.
I think... Charlie had asked me to do a quiz or something and I got Son of Poseidon. So... I like it. I thought I would either be a Son of Poseidon or Athena once.
How do you feel about it?
that.
Elliot (11:13.942)
Yeah, I remember when I was younger, we used to like very young, I used to pretend like to play with my friends and I was the son of Poseidon and Athena, so.
Thank you! That's very good.
So yeah, probably that, a camper. I don't think I would survive very long though.
yeah!
You
Darien (11:37.24)
Just being realistic.
Yeah. Or I wouldn't be the kind of camper that would go on quests. I think I would just chill at camp.
That's fair. Just chill and go home at the end of the summer. Yeah. You know, this is a question I've asked guests often and I don't think... So fun fact, hey, it's our four year anniversary!
Hmm.
Elliot (12:01.518)
Wow, congratulations!
Thank So I'm using this as a mini opportunity before we get into the actual meat of the episode. want to real quick just revisit how in early episodes back when we were podcasted Poseidon, I was always a hunter of Artemis and DJ was from whatever cabin. I would like to officially state that in the Ryre Inverse, I would absolutely be a magician. Probably an acolyte of Bast or Anubis because I have a brand.
Darien (12:34.796)
Yes. Sorry, DJ, what'd say? Just vibing and keeping it tight.
I'd be amused. I just be amused.
Just be a minor god
I'm the race of the muse whatever they be. I'm just one of those
baby mues music right along us no no no no you're like a minor muse you don't you don't want the responsibility and the pressure of being like a deity or a demigod or something like that you just want
DJ (12:53.708)
I'm not one of the nine.
DJ (12:58.123)
Yeah.
Elliot (13:05.378)
What would be your art form?
don't know.
Gaming, right? Yeah.
DJ (13:15.404)
I would just I would be the muse that's just hitting people with random inspiration in the middle of the night. Just the crazy shit. Get that. It's never gonna come to fruition, you don't have the drive.
Oh, the muse of Now I Can't Sleep.
Darien (13:31.316)
DJ! no, that's so mean! You don't have the drive? It's the coldest thing I've ever heard someone say. Okay, I'm dragging this into the episode now. I have to get away from that. That was upsetting. I felt personally attacked as my draft sits unfinished in my Google Docs. I have to walk away. Okay, so now I will ask Elliot.
you
Elliot (13:42.008)
I'm
Darien (14:00.462)
Why did you want to come on and talk about elves and dwarves?
I thought they were cool. You put a list and I realized I know nothing. I have no idea what any of that means.
Yes.
I was looking at all the things I was thinking, okay, what do I know the most about? I saw like, elves. know, I don't, don't even think you wrote elves and dwarves. think you just wrote something and like a weird word. And I thought the word sounded cool. then you said, yeah, you can come. so I agreed. And at the time I had.
didn't read Magnus Chase. And so and so and I know nothing about Norse mythology like nothing and so yeah what you wrote down I didn't understand anything so I really just picked up random.
Darien (15:11.502)
I probably wrote down like Nidavellir, Alfheim, and Svartvelheim. It's just one of those, those are just the worlds.
Yeah,
and I just... So I read the first book. huh. And then I had a bunch of uni stuff and I forgot to read the rest and then you told me I think two days ago? No, yesterday. You told me that we would collab. So... Okay, okay.
No, no, no, no. I said, Saturday, hey, the only time we record now is at 2 AM your time. I didn't know if you were still interested. And you said yes. And I said, OK, well, we're going to record this Wednesday, actually. So I did give you not enough notice, not just I just confirmed for sure for sure yesterday. You're right. Call me out. Put me on blast. That's fair.
Yeah,
Elliot (16:07.406)
And so I re-read the first book again. Well, part of it, I'm three quarters through. Just to re-delve myself into the world. Yeah, re-fresh myself.
Okay, so we will avoid, for the sake of our guest, major spoilers from the other two books, which I think will be...
You can spoil me, I've been spoiled about half of them. Like, I've been spoiled.
Basically in this particular episode there aren't super- there aren't very many like plot points from the books that I think will interrogate too much. I think the only thing is we don't actually go to Alfheim until the second book. We'll just start with Nidavellir. Who wants to tell us what Nidavellir is? Anyone? Bueller?
Yeah.
DJ (17:00.108)
Need of Leer is... It's the Dwarf? Is it the Dwarves or is it Dark Elves? It's both.
In Magnus Chase specifically.
Yeah, it's the dwarf place. great. It's they're all everything's handcrafted. There's no AI generation anywhere. It would not be super into it.
They would fucking not stand for that shit.
Darien (17:25.198)
DJ, whenever you pause and make that little shuffle, I'm always very scared about what you're going to say next.
Well, I was just going to bring up the fact that Blitzen made a tanning bed for his elf. Very sweet. No sun.
Yeah, he did! There's no sun down there! They're so good!
Good.
Darien (17:42.924)
Lesson, their bond, unbreakable.
in the lore, the Magnus Chase Gods of Asgard lore section on the notes, I described it as, underground realm of the dwarfs, everything has a name, home to dwarfs and quote, dark elves who are just a taller dwarf and children's last descendants of Freya, cause Rick chose a hit piece to base his version of the goddess on. And Svalvahheim is mentioned, Blitz says he's from there, but he lives in Needle Valyr. So I think that kind of means Sval-
Vartselfheim is like in Nidaveller somewhere. It's like you're in New York and here's a burrow. You're in brook. He's like from Brooklyn.
Maybe.
That's just what I'm gonna go off of.
DJ (18:33.23)
Was it described as neon?
The, okay, no, but in the Nine from the Nine, the art page of Need of Waliir has neon, and I have adopted that as under-
If it's in 9 for the 9, that's like the art page I imagine, it's relatively canon then.
Like it's neon all around.
because they can't have super bright lights, right? Like anything that replicates.
DJ (18:59.31)
You don't want it like UV.
that relates to neon.
Well neon's a type of light that doesn't fix you like UV rays.
Like I thought you meant neon colors.
That would be crazy though But if everything is also painted neon black
DJ (19:16.812)
Las Vegas ass lights all over.
DJ (19:21.966)
There's no blacklight though
I thought I was just imagining just a place with a bunch of neon colors everywhere.
that would be. Yeah, cyber underground cyberpunk.
It's like a cyberpunk.
like, an arcane,
Darien (19:42.516)
yes, I haven't seen Arcane, but probably, Let's OK, I'll break it. Let's get into more about Nita Valera and the dwarves, and then we'll circle back and talk about the elves in the books and then the elf lore. So I.
did not dig as much into the etymology as I usually would to verify. But the beginning of Wikipedia had just this crazy stuff. And I just wanted to share it because I found it insane. I don't need, again, I usually will double check and verify with other things. But this was just wild enough that I wanted to share. So.
According to Wikipedia, the breakdown of Nidavellir is Nid, which is Nud, but not Nid as in Nidhogg. Apparently this is another term that translates to Numen or Wain of the Moon and Valyr, which means fields. So it would roughly translate to dark fields or down world fields. There's another claim that it means Merkmir, which is a compound of darkness and Himir. So world of darkness, dark abode.
you
which is very 2013 Tumblr do not steal.
DJ (20:52.942)
A little bit.
My character, they're from Darkabode.
Was it darkness, revenge, something, my immortal?
Elliot (21:08.596)
ebony darkness or something
You gotta respect. That's the ultimate question. It's like was this sincere or was this the greatest parody of all time? And we will never know. The world will never know. So, Nidavulir is mentioned in the Vulspa, which is the seer's prophecy. Seer is describing like all the things she has seen, everything the world has made up on.
you
Elliot (21:23.01)
Yeah.
Darien (21:39.128)
From the east there flows through poison valleys, a river with knives and swords, fearful it is called. To the north there stood on dark of moon plains, a hall of gold, of Sindri's lineage. And another stood on Nevercold, the beer hall of the giant Bremnir. So the thing about this. Elliot, you have an explanation.
Yeah, there's a river of knives and swords. a river, just a river polluted.
or it's made of. Super fun fact about North Physiology, that may be the only time it's mentioned. Who's to say? There's just a river. It's called Fearful.
Huh.
Nice.
Elliot (22:20.398)
I wouldn't want to sim it.
That this translation I have I feel like sometimes maybe it over translates things Where it's like it is called fearful, but I bet there's like an old Nordic word there that
is translated to fearful and when it's like a proper noun I don't know if I would necessarily translate what it means I maybe have like an appendix or a footnote for the translation because I think that phrase that goes the dark of moon planes is probably it translating the name meet a valier
Mm-hmm.
because the text would say the word that is the Nordic word, or the Old Norse word, needeful here. But we know this place is a reference, and we know it is where the dwarves live because of that reference to it being of Sindri's lineage. Because Sindri is a dwarf, is a well-known dwarf. At least according to Snorri he is.
Elliot (23:25.676)
Yeah, he's so well known that I have no idea who he is.
I only know like one Fafnir.
DJ What Dwarf do you know?
What did Fafnir do?
He is the dragon. He's the greed man.
Elliot (23:41.888)
He's a dragon or he's a dwarf?
Yeah, he's the dragon that turns in or he's the dwarf that turns into a dragon due to his greed. That's where that comes from.
That's quite a glow up.
It's not particularly he ends up murdering his whole family. remember Craig.
Yeah, well, sacrifices are great sometimes.
Darien (24:08.458)
Okay, so.
I do want to tell y'all about Sindri because it's super great and it's got some like A plus Loki content. sit back. This story comes from the Prose Edda. Specifically, it's from the Skaldskaparmal, which is just a collection of here's some mythological stories. Don't worry about it. Sindri and his brother Brokker appear in a tale where they are competing against some
other dwarves who were just referred to as the Sons of Ivaldi and this competition was orchestrated by Loki. He bet the brothers his own head that they couldn't make better gifts than the Sons because the Sons had made these three gifts for the gods. made Skrblennr, which is the flying ship of Frey, Gunnir, which is the spear belonging to Odin, and then they made the golden hair for Sif to replace when Loki cut all her hair off.
and we'll just pin in that, get to that when we get to Loki. I didn't read too much. I'm just focused in on the dwarves here. I kind of suspect that Loki set up this contest to try to appease the whole, hey, you cut off this goddess's hair and now everybody's pissed at you. Because the sons, or not the sons, so the sons made those three things. Sindri and his brother created Drenpneir, which is the golden ring that Odin wears that has the ability to multiply itself by eight times every nine nights.
created a golden boar that glows in the dark named Gullinbursti, which was a gift for Frey, and they made Mjolnir for Thor. And I think that last one needs no description.
DJ (25:56.014)
I just I just had the thought of that ring that multiplies by eight every nine days It's just a genie wish being like I wish I got a gold bar that multi that Multiplied every day and the genes like yeah, okay. It's every day on average, bud
Every ninth day, here's a... It does sound like...
It's not even gonna be the ninth day. You don't know when it's gonna happen, but eventually it'll happen and it'll explode because it's so many fucking days went by you forgot about it.
That is the top tier chain you wish.
Also, how are you gonna store all these rings? What's point of having so many rings? And wouldn't they lose value because of how many there are?
DJ (26:37.72)
Give them out. Gifts. Bribery.
Darien (26:47.958)
gotta think everybody has one at this point. every, every like sawing, every winter solstice, every summer harvest, like the Odin has to give a gift. He's giving everybody rings. Like everybody's got one. Everyone's got six at this point. This ring is actually the same ring that Balder puts, not Balder, that Odin puts on Balder's body at his funeral pyre.
That balded then gives to the one God who went back to went to hell to try to retrieve him and he's like no take this ring go back Tell him I'm not coming back
Well, it was like he-
It was like he knew he couldn't come back. Like you can't, they did it.
O.G. ring or like one of the replicas.
Darien (27:39.468)
I think it was the OG ring. Odin was real beat up about it. no, it's not that he couldn't go back. It's like, give my ring, give Odin back his ring to let him know you did in fact find me and he couldn't come back because Loki was a shit about it. And then the boar, Freyr rides a boar to Odin's, not Odin, to Baldur's funeral? Pretty sure it's the same boar. Also, speaking of dwarves, there's a dwarf named Lytier who Thor just kicks into Baldur's funeral pyre for like no reason.
asshole yeah that is a thing that is said that happens and scholars literally don't know why they don't know what this character represents they don't know what it's supposed to like do
Just be like yeah, it's not like it's it's not like there's anything scratched out. We know this character's whole past present future Thor just did that
Yeah, and it's the one- Yeah, it's the one place that this figure is mentioned. So I mention him because it's dwarf episode.
casual homicide.
Elliot (28:39.374)
Why do it like- way to ruin the moment for a funeral. Now you're thinking about the other guy that's dead. I'm not the original-
Really pulling
But maybe that guy was mouthing off about Baldur. Thor was also really beat up about Baldur. They were all about to kill Loki.
But does just say, Thor just kicks this guy into the fire. No, there's not any buildup. It just happens.
Thor's just so angry about to himself about Baldur's death that he just lets out a random moment of anger and it happens to be this dwarf right in front of him.
Elliot (29:12.662)
Yeah, poor dwarf.
Yeah. So, aside. So those are all the things, the super cool things they made. During the crafting process, a gadfly, which is believed to be Loki, kept interfering with the brothers. But despite the trouble, the gods still decided that Sindri and Brokker's creations were better. So they won the bet and were like, all right, we get Loki's head. And Loki said, no, no, because to see, to get my head, you would have to damage my neck. And that wasn't part of the deal.
So Brockers sewed his lips shut so he couldn't brag about it until the thread came loose.
And then I'm like, well, I won't take it. I'll leave some of your head. How about that? You get to keep your bottom jaw.
That's, yeah.
Elliot (30:00.472)
So wait, Loki's mouth was sewn.
for a while, not permanently. It came was eventually in time for him to roll up and make everybody pissed at him at a party sometime later.
What's a godfly?
It's just like a big ugly buzzy fly. Bites. It's like a horse fly, I think. Actually, that is a great question. think. God. Fly.
It's just a type of fly. Cool. There's a lot of... It's specifically a fly that bites livestock, like a horse fly, a wobble fly, or a bob fly. They are ugly ass flies.
Elliot (30:37.758)
But
DJ (30:47.752)
I believe it flies are just ugly
Yeah, I don't think I know any pretty flies. I never looked at a fly, was like, hmm, this one's pretty.
Sometimes I've seen one that are like really shiny and I'm like, yeah, that's a shiny fly, but I still don't think it's So that I wanted to include the gadfly stuff cuz I was like, wait, this is the scene from the first Magnus book like We get the whole thing. This is what Rick was playing off of us right down to the gadfly of it all but I also wanted to cite this tale because this story in particular is Probably the major contributor to why dwarves
Yeah.
Darien (31:28.404)
historically, from this time onward and in today's modern media, almost always the most skilled craftsmen you'll find in the realm.
Thought you were gonna say pushovers.
What swarves have you been encountering in media?
I don't know. But they're always small and dying horrible deaths.
Okay.
Darien (31:55.63)
terms are you accounting in media?
Look at all the hobbit.
the Hobbit, you know what? The Hobbit's a really good point. Like, 12 out of the 13 dwarves on that party died? That's a really good point, Elliot. I had not considered the Hobbit, and that's on me. Let's do a roundup of a couple other famous dwarves. We've mentioned a few of them. Fowlar and Galar, who are the two dwarves that murdered...
Kavassir? Kavassir? Kvassir. That's what it is. Brewed the mead of poetry from his blood? We talked about them in our veneer episode. Yeah, it's pretty dark. That story is probably also where we get the idea of dwarves being really good at brewing mead.
Kavassi.
DJ (32:52.91)
Being able to brew a magical mead through someone's blood is pretty impressive.
Someone who is the living embodiment of a peace treaty.
Yeah.
I guess there's a lot of iron in it.
yeah.
Darien (33:10.318)
Another dwarf we've mentioned before is Alvis, who is the dwarf that wanted to marry Thor's daughter and Thor was like, you are too ugly. So he kept asking him for like word rhymes basically until the sun came up. So he would turn to stone and Thor could be like, and that problem is solved.
This man don't harass me anymore.
Wow.
And then I want to do a rundown of one that's a little bit more lengthy. And Vari, who is a dwarf who lives under a waterfall and can shape shift into a pike, which is a kind of fish. And he had like a bunch of gold, like so much gold. he had a magic ring that would help him find gold. And Loki.
this fella.
Darien (34:02.818)
because he loves to cause problems for everybody stole and various treasure and the ring and in revenge and very cursed the ring to bring misfortune to whoever had it and so Loki quickly gives the cursed ring away to crime
I am the Lord of the Rings.
It's Lord of the Rings! A little bit. Yes. So he gives the cursed ring away to the King of the Dwarves as reparation for having accidentally or accidentally quote quote quote killed one of the King's sons. And so then here's Fafnir who was the King's other son. Fafnir. Murdered his father to take the ring and eventually turned into a dragon in order to protect it.
Rolling up
Elliot (34:49.998)
So yeah, the Hobbit.
So yeah, the Hobbit. And it doesn't end there, because Sigurd, who is one of the great heroes of Nordic legend, he eventually kills Fafnir, gets the ring, gives it to Brunnhilde, who is sometimes his wife, sometimes a Valkyrie. We talked about her a little bit in the past. And now the Queen Grimhilde then manipulated Sigurd and Brunnhilde into marrying her children, and that brought the curse into
her family and they all, Brunhilde and Sigurd end up dead at some point in time. And then the brother, I think, Gunnar of Sigurd eventually takes all the gold and just puts it back in the cave for Envari to try to break the curse. And Envari gets his gold back, but the ring is like lost forever. That just disappears.
supposedly probably to bring misfortune onto others.
What's the timeline of this? Like is it all through multiple like centuries?
Darien (36:04.046)
So it's hard to say how much time has passed. It... it... it... Because I mean, I guess it depends on like how long does it take Fafnir to turn into a dragon? Who's to say?
Yeah.
Elliot (36:19.224)
Yeah. But-
Well, was kind of fucking quick for Mr. Alderman.
Who?
that. It's fine. Elliot, earlier you mentioned dwarves being short.
It's fun.
Elliot (36:33.514)
Uh-huh.
It's not a trap. I just thought that was a good segue for my next point.
yeah, dwarfs are short. It's like the dwarfism.
Yes, the word we use to describe the condition of dwarves comes from the Germanic folklore of dwarves. But, Norse dwarves weren't short. This was a rabbit hole that I was on the precipice of, but did not let myself fall too deeply into. But essentially...
There are no descriptions of what dwarves look There's really few descriptions of what anyone really looks like. We know Balder, kind of. We have descriptions of him, a few things of Thor sometimes, a couple like signifiers. But there's not like, like you picture dwarves. They are stout in stature and have beards. And neither of those are a thing that we'll find in these stories of Norse dwarves. Those would come much, much later, often believed as the
Darien (37:40.72)
The of dwarves, inspired by the Norse stories, became intermingled with other dramatic folk tales about little people and fairy folk and stuff like that and those type of things. There are a couple sagas where there was a dwarf who was very short and had the power to make himself very, very tall, but he would be an outlier in the rest of this Nordic dwarves particular.
think in Celtic mythology there are small dwarves that would like help people and others that were against people, who would trick people, like there's a bunch of stuff.
Yeah, the like the idea of wars and like elves to like these elements we have today are so like woven together with all sorts of different like folklore and ideas that bring us to where we are at. But I saw this line I really liked that noted that in Scaldic and Eddic sources, it's been noted that the role of a dwarf is what defines them as a dwarf rather than like their physical appearance. The fact that they are craftsmen and making valuable tools for the gods.
That's how you know this is a dwarf and not necessarily because they are short and have great facial hair.
to manual labor.
Darien (39:03.754)
not necessarily manual labor, a craftsmanship. More to the point. They're not plowing. Yeah, they're not like carrying logs or building houses or like, you know, digging wells. They are making the tools that would be used to do the manual labor.
Good with hands and arms.
Darien (39:23.598)
I'm going to stay on Dwarves a little bit and talk about Swartvelheim, since that's something that Blitz mentions as he's from there. Because in... So the way we've really broken down the season is that we are going largely world by world. And that means these three worlds got paired together because I've... Listen, there's not a lot on Elves, so they got paired in with the Dwarves. So we'll get to that in a minute. But...
Nidavellir and Svaltveheim are specifically interesting because either one might be cited as one of the nine worlds, but never both of them.
Hmph.
because they're mentioned so sparsely. Like, Nidavellir is mentioned in the poetic edda in the Vospa home. cited that one earlier. Svartvaheim is only mentioned in the prose edda, in specifically this story we just talked about where the sons of Ivaldi are, you know, the crafting and the challenge, and they are stated as being from this place. And the translation literally means the world of black elves.
because they're associated with a race of elves called the Dolka Lafar, which literally translates to dark elf.
Elliot (40:51.178)
At least they're consistent.
Essentially, is... It's also another dwarf you mentioned, Envari. That waterfall he lives under is in... DJ, say it for me again. So, we have this well-known dwarf in this place that's supposed to be for dark elves. And the point I'm trying to make here is that scholars...
Thank you.
Darien (41:19.882)
have kind of come to the conclusion that they think the dark elves and the dwarves were the same thing. Not every scholar, some scholars would probably argue with that, but by and large, the idea, because a lot of the dark elves would also fit the description and the roles that the dwarves were doing. Craftsmen making things. Ellie, you look like you're losing your mind.
Yeah, no, no, I know. It's just that they say that, I mean, in Rick Riordan in Magnus Chase, he says that. Blitz, I think, he is a dwarf, but he's like a tall dwarf who can pass for a small human. because he's a dark elf and all of that.
Good.
Darien (42:03.372)
Yeah, Rick Bryden went ahead and to, I actually really admire how he wove these two ideas together and just made it so like, we're gonna go with the Ward of the Dark Elves. That's just part of Nidavellir, they're all dwarves. Dark elves are just a kind of dwarf. And that tracks, that tracks with like a really interesting interpretation that really follows like kind of what these stories are going for. Now the thing I don't super love about Rick deciding, well what's,
It is the origin of the darkness.
of the dark elves him deciding that well what where are the dark elves from and him deciding well they are children of Freya and I have screamed about that so much already I won't make you listeners hear me again and if you want to hear me again you can go listen to our Freya and Freya episode where I screamed a bunch about it very cringe Elliot Elliot it's so bad Elliot it's so bad but we move on
Pretty bad. Kinda cringe.
Elliot (42:59.072)
If you
And so that is a cool thing. in the interesting, sometimes, Mirk Ryden does things like make Cersei an antagonist who can't undo her own magic for no goddamn reason. And sometimes he does things like take weird, complicated, vague ideas in mythology that weren't well fleshed out and combining it together in a really interesting world building satisfying, largely satisfying kind of way.
or tried to prove like historical inaccuracies and stuff with the Vikings coming to the US.
Yes, he also did that.
No, that one's Kino. I love that one so much, it's so stu-
Darien (43:46.344)
It is so stupid. So it's like the dwarves and then the dark elves are considered one of the same. like scholar John Lindow has commented that it's not clear if they were considered the same at the same time as the writing of the Prose Edda or whether that's something that came about later as we lost distance from it.
and it's impossible to say, but I do like Rick Riordan making the call of saying that they are one as the same and essentially like distinct but the same. Like I think that is very interesting in like the world building and making it a cohesive narrative.
He's also simplifying it for people who are being introduced to the mythology. It was easier for me to understand and I know nothing about mythology.
Yeah, no, for sure. definitely, when I was getting into being like, are these elves or are they dwarves? I don't. And it's like easy, like they're dwarves moving on. Thank you, Rick. Appreciate it. Now let's talk about elves. Elliot has not read the books where we go to Alfheim. So DJ, do you want to describe what Alfheim is like real quick? Or Elliot, do you want to guess what you think Alfheim is like?
okay. Woodsy, I think. Well, that's the imagination that we have with elves is woods. Very, aesthetic. Yeah, cottagecore. Lots of pointy stuff. I don't know.
Darien (45:09.166)
cottage core
Darien (45:18.84)
like their ears?
Yeah, I mean, I'd say pointy stuff like glass, like ornate things is what I-
spires?
Although it depends on the elf, to be honest. I don't know how they were characterized. Isn't it that there's no night? So it's day all the time?
absolutely.
Darien (45:49.006)
always sunny in Alfheim.
There.
It is brighter than the sunniest day on earth always sunny
Yeah, my guess is... Yeah, my guess is that the people don't sleep.
They do sleep. That's the funny thing. They just turn they just close the windows. Maybe they could just sleep through it. I don't know. They do sleep.
Elliot (46:13.066)
the pit those like
Like just very fancy. Okay, DJ. What's it like in the books?
Well, it's always sunny. It is a little woodsy, but it's it's more of like a modern upper class neighborhood. Or at least the area that we saw. Well, you know, they all forgot how to do magic. They don't do any archer stuff anymore, and they're all into technology. So that's I'm I'm almost tempted to say modern antebellum.
Fighting.
Hahaha!
Darien (46:49.774)
Honestly DJ modern antebellum isn't wrong. That's I put evil country club vibes, but honestly is like exact
tempted to say what's that because a pre-civil war South
What is antebellum?
That's the word for the pre-Civil War South in the United States. So racist! Absolutely, I put, yep, basically racist. They actively practice slavery, so they're absolutely racist.
Elliot (47:11.736)
So racist.
Elliot (47:26.968)
Well, listen, there's no plantations.
They just enslave other cultures that live there. It's also, it's not in the clouds, but it's kind of in the clouds. gravity isn't the same there. Like it's literally everything is light, like bright and. Like on the moon. Yeah. Magnus mentions when he's there that like it feels weird. Like he doesn't feel as heavy as he usually does.
like on the moon.
Elliot (47:58.478)
Well, let's hope his muscles don't atrophy.
It's okay, they're not there for very long. Because fuck Alfheim!
Yeah, because it's racist, white suburbia is what you're-
Pretty much.
That is the point that Rick Riordan is like he is doing he is commenting on that kind of culture and that kind of mindset and behavior with framing Alfheim as this and that being where her this from and her being deaf and Having to deal with a childhood in that space like it is very interesting and very compelling and I do appreciate in this one how different it is from what we would expect from from like elves because the idea we have from elves is once again
Darien (48:46.86)
something that happened over centuries and was blended with other like Germanic folk traditions. In Norse mythology, we've gotten next to nothing.
Alfheims translates to land of the elves or elf land.
in the Grimmsnall. That's right. Odin is once again playing undercover boss, and so someone is doing a wisdom game, citing all the things they know, and they're citing all of the like great halls of the lands. And we get this stanza that goes, Yieldale it is called the place where Ul has made a hall for himself. Alfheim, the gods game to Freyr in the bygone days as tooth payment.
Darien (49:37.646)
That was essentially, it's also called a teething gift. And it was, the tradition was once a child began to like, their teeth would begin to come in, they would get a gift. So when Freyr was a wee babe, he was given Alfheim.
given the land of the elves.
Wow. He really was fed with a silver spoon.
For real? No, for real. He's not the son of Odin.
He's the son of Odin, nothing but the best. that's right. No, he's not. He's the son of Norn. Only but the best.
Elliot (50:15.31)
Mm-hmm.
time is mentioned. Now Snorri gets into the it's the Dokofar and the Lulzlafar which is the dark elves and light elves and he gets all into that in the Gilfunningen Inc. which I will now reference let me hop in
So, light elves are racists and dark elves are dwarves.
Essentially, yeah. Loki- not Loki. Snorri says that in his conversation they're having a ganglieri who is this king who is talking to these three beings, Hi... What is it? Hi... Just as Hi and the third.
which is we are pretty sure just Odin three times. He asked them to describe other significant places in existence and High says, are many, many places there. One is called Alfheim. The people called the light elves live there, but the dark elves live below the earth. They are different from light elves in appearance and far more so in nature. Light elves are more beautiful than the sun while dark elves are blacker than pitch.
Darien (51:23.852)
And that is where it ends our commentary on the Dark Elves and the Light Elves.
toward and concise.
Yep. I find it interesting that this translation translates it as more beautiful than the sun. When I was doing research, I found that line a couple of times and I've seen it as brighter or fairer than the sun, which would. Signify. Yeah, because there because I think the. is.
sense.
Elliot (51:54.766)
Because looking at the sun you become blind.
Yeah, it's less about a beauty when you say fairer or brighter and more of they are physically light, like sunlight. They are white and dark elves are literally black. Like it's more of like a color spectrum. Whereas if you describe them as beautiful as the sun, whereas dark elves are blacker than pitch and the opposite, it does suggest that dark elves are inherently ugly.
skin tone.
Darien (52:27.358)
And that sucks.
racism.
I'm career when you said it's weird that like I don't know Maybe it's it's strange how like doors became small and I'm like I bet it's like a the only thing we have on elves is that they're beautiful, know, and so and that the Dwarves are the opposite from the elves I'm like wow, it literally quite was that is like they are beautiful and graceful and they
What the fuck?
Hi.
DJ (52:54.318)
Yeah, height is being a standard of beauty and like fair skin and like just not working period. Also a thing of like beauty. And then the dwarves are an exact opposite short, hairy, they work with their hands, they're gruff.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's colorism and social hierarchy.
Yeah, exactly. These other things that have woven into the way we view these mythological and
But would it... Because I don't know about like the Vikings they were like a very strong, violent population and so I don't know if... I think they would value making craftsmanship and all of that so maybe this judgment that we imposed that like all it was like colorism and all that maybe is just...
Darien (53:39.308)
Yeah.
Elliot (53:47.372)
they did what was different negative
And that's like a
Yeah, I think.
I don't think the Vikings viewed anything like the sort of that what we see elves and dwarves today. It probably really was that they were similar in nature, but dark elves crafted for their gods. So they like it's not like they disrespected them. They were just similar. Yeah, just different. Similar enough to be like compared to each other, but different enough to be like their own thing. I think the
different.
Darien (54:13.592)
Yeah.
I was gonna say like that's why I noted that the fact that it's translated in this text as beautiful as the Sun rather than like brighter or fairer is a distinct decision to denote beauty where perhaps there wasn't one it's just these are light elves because they are physically very bright these are dark elves because they are physically dark and that is just the distinguisher that is just a descriptor that was not necessarily meant to carry any cultural judgment other than that's
blonde girl. That's a brunette girl. And that just being a statement doesn't necessarily mean anything, but we as a culture can bring meaning into how we have come to view those traits. But yeah, that's the place we find that mentioned. Here's the thing about the L's. Is that I have nothing more to give you. I have unlike
If you're into great anime, should go watch it.
That's one of the L's that I chose. I think it was my number one actually. But I have stuff about Faye if you want.
DJ (55:14.958)
You
Darien (55:23.342)
Okay, I yes, hold on. I yes, I nothing more to give you. I have one more thing. just I have nothing more to give you and then let me underline and prove it. So unlike in the dwarves where I was able to give you a list of like here's some noteworthy dwarves and that's not even all the dwarves that have names. Those are just the ones that like noteworthy enough to have some story and stuff I thought would be interesting to share. But there are dozens and dozens more that are just named right. I could not
a list of named elves. Like I found one guy, his name is Dane, and in a po- hold on let me reference that po- like- like-
like the dog.
DJ (56:01.73)
the cook.
There's a cook named Dane?
I don't know.
the community.
DJ (56:20.642)
It could be like dying.
Elliot (56:34.766)
Yeah.
you
Okay, so we have Dane, who is, I will admit, dog, often a dwarf, but in this example, in Sayings of the High One, is an elf, specifically an elf who gave runes to the other elves. The runes you must find in meaningful letters, with great letters, very stiff letters, which are the mighty sage-colored and the huge powers made and the room master of the gods carved out.
Odin among the Aesir, and Dain among the Elves, Daphshalin among the Dwarves, Osvid among the Giants, I myself carved some.
DJ (57:16.386)
The only famous elf.
The kind of the only named elf I could find. Other places kept citing this dude. Hold on, what is this man's name? Voldor, who is the protagonist of the Volda Kavira, which is a saga.
Other places kept citing him as an elf. He is better known as Weyland the Smith. He was a renowned blacksmith and the son of the King of the Finns. And the Finns was actually the Old Norse name for the Sami, who are the indigenous people of the north of that area in what became Sweden, Finland, and Norway. So I don't know.
why he would be interpreted as an elf. I didn't read this thing. I read the spark notes summary of it. honestly, I'd be more likely to cite this dude as a dwarf for all the stuff he makes. He turns some dude's son's skulls into goblets and their eyes into jewels. like, don't know.
Why is it jewels?
Darien (58:22.08)
I was fascinated by that. how would you.
Like the crystallization of the now.
It's it's it's actually way more like dark and gore he literally just like cracked their skull open with their eyes still in it and was just drinking from it and they made it a goblin
I understand making a go-
darker like it's purely metaphorical but also not
Elliot (58:44.97)
I understand making a goblet out of a skull. I think they do that in Game of Thrones. like the whole making jewels out of eyes is very weird because the eyes... just... He stopped the whole decomposition.
show how talented he was.
DJ (59:04.307)
They became carbonite diamonds.
well if you squ- if you put too much pressure on an eye apparently it a diamond
carbon in that. Sure. Yeah.
Can't always!
Look into that for me, will ya? For lore!
DJ (59:24.866)
Yeah, could you not like don't look into into Percy Jackson or look into Norse Norse mythology just for a little
FUNZYS. FUNZYS. For me. As a treat. no don't do that. That sounds upsetting. And would drive Owen mad, I fear.
I some stuff about dwarves. don't know if you remember, but the first time I came here, it was to talk about how Medusa had like stolen dwarves in her garden.
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that was in our Olympus roundup.
And because there's no like dwarves or not really dwarves in mythology, in Greek mythology, that means that she would like put the dwarves in like gnome attires and stuff and then petrify them to sell them.
Darien (01:00:18.392)
What's also interesting is that dwarves in Norse mythology and then canonically in the Ryarden books turn to stone in the sunlight. So it's entirely possible that Medusa just came upon some dwarves who were already stone and she just added them to her collection.
Like, sick. I didn't even have to do these. That was awesome.
And then she freaks the fuck out when she sees them.
when it starts raining.
And then she puts him to the costume and then she properly turns them in the stone with her powers and they don't undo Do because it's built-in like natural thing of the doors and they just keep On the inside
Elliot (01:00:53.838)
or maybe they...
DJ (01:00:58.144)
It's just a natural defense system against petrification.
She just puts on like when you're when someone's buying it just a sign special stone cannot get
It's like moonstone. You can't get moonstone wet, it'll dissolve. Will it dissolve? Yeah, basically.
very much.
Okay, so last thing I have on the elves is kind of like trying to like hypothesize why there's not so much. Like there's a ton about dwarves. Dwarves are just around. Dwarves are doing stuff. There's this one elf who's named and he's sometimes even a dwarf. So like, I don't even know, man. But scholars have kind of come to the conclusion that the elves may have been viewed as semi-divine.
Darien (01:01:46.678)
with like a specific connection to the veneer. Especially because Frey was given Alfheim as a gift and considered the lord of Alfheim. That definitely makes a connection to the elves and the veneer in that way.
What is it with Norse mythology and teeth? Like veneers teething.
I keep saying here.
Like, I'm not 100 % sure what a veneer, like for me a veneer is fake teeth.
yeah.
Darien (01:02:18.624)
V-A-N-I-R. It's one of the
Vanir is one of the gods who are ruling over Vanaheim.
the Aesir and who are of Asgard and the Veneer who are of Anaheim. are two families of gods and Freya is of Frey and Freya are actually from there of the Veneer but they're also considered part of the Aesir.
Okay, so not fake teeth.
So not fake teeth. fake teeth. Okay. Speaking of the Aesir though, in Norse poetry, there was this alliteration that comes up a lot. Aesir ok alfar, which translates to Aesir and Elves. And that has led even more scholars to suggest that there was probably, well not even that these two were like linked, but that perhaps the Aesir and the Elves were the same group.
Darien (01:03:05.868)
Like the elves are just another name for the Aesir gods, which is why we see it named so infrequently, because it is. They're named all the time. It's all of the Aesir. We've just lost the fact that Elf was just another word for it. And there was just this subset of gods that were the light elves that lived on Altheim. The racists.
the racist.
Well, the racist in Rick Riordan's book, the sounds like they don't have a lot of opinions in in Norse mythology, but and that is officially all I have on elves.
Not a lot of helps.
Elliot, I understand you have some FAI research to present to the class.
Elliot (01:03:47.342)
Yeah, so my research was I looked up some stuff and I found two... Well, I did like my own research and then I found two YouTubers who actually made like really good videos about Fae and their evolution. One of them is the book Leo and it's from Tinkerbell to Fae Smut, the evolution of the Fae.
Nice.
And the other one was proper bird. Let's talk about fae. And then I did some other research and what I got was basically a fae and fairy are the same thing. The fairy is an umbrella term for anything that is, like gnomes, elves, fairies, all of that were considered fae before.
And the last part, RE is apparently just a French like thing that they just added. Yeah.
it.
Darien (01:04:53.774)
For flair? For flavor? Interesting.
Mm-hmm. And so the fairies, it was just the umbrella for everything and fae were just beautiful creatures. Like, cause nymphs, for example, in Greek mythology were considered fae. That makes sense.
Yeah.
And so it evolved throughout time and there wasn't any specific description. So no pointy ears, nothing. It was just beautiful women. And then during the Victorian period, before that, idea that we have of Faye now of like beautiful women and flowy dresses comes from Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream.
Those are two.
Elliot (01:05:45.838)
It'd be the Elizabeth.
The Elizabethan era. And so that's where we get the idea of like really magical beings that are very pretty because they weren't seen as like some were pretty, some were ugly. It wasn't seen as like particular in any way. And then during the Victorian era, painters used the because of like the Industrial Revolution and all of that, there was a reconnection with
mystical side of society and how was before the Industrial Revolution and so painters would paint a lot of fairies and fae and elves and all of that and it was also an excuse to just paint a bunch of naked women.
Yeah.
because it was very like, prude. It was a prude society, but if you were painting folklore, you were allowed to paint naked women. so a lot of painters use that.
Elliot (01:06:49.77)
use that as an excuse to make them very sexy. then later on, when there was no longer this need for like sexiness and all of that, was the the fairies started to get shorter and smaller so that they could sit on laps. And then another author described fairies as having insect like wings. then all of that changed so that we associate
fairies more with children's fairy tales and all of that. So they get smaller and smaller. And then nowadays we associate fairies and elves with a bunch of authors and fantasy. And there's a bunch of subcategories, for example, Sarah J. Maas, the fae. There... Yeah, there is... She doesn't really take inspiration from...
of that.
Elliot (01:07:48.894)
anything apart from the court the whole court system apparently like the autumn the seasonal thing comes from i think celtic
Yeah, that's a folklore thing.
Yeah. And yeah, just makes them hot. There was a distinction between high and low F, but I didn't do that much research.
That seems like too much of a deep dive. I appreciate the effort you already put into it.
Yeah
Darien (01:08:18.85)
Yeah,
and how he wove them together just all the way down to like D &D today we have what is an elf and what is a fairy and is Tolkien is almost always responsible unless someone's taking very big swings and interpretations
Yeah, I wonder where the pointy ears came from. Yeah! why did he decide to put pointy ears?
Yeah, is that something that was older? that from art? because it's not, it's another.
See, saw, I think I saw some art before Tolkien where they had pointy ears, but there were like little tiny fairies, like Tinkerbell-ish fairies. But before that, was just a bunch of naked women dancing in a circle, draping themselves with stuff.
Darien (01:09:41.496)
My Saturday nights. feel like I need to talk about Aragon briefly because elves and dwarves are in that, but like honestly it is just the Tolkien dwarves again and the elves. like the only reason I'd really formally bring it up is to be like, hey, y'all should also be listening to my other podcast, Aragon and Back Again. People say they like it. Elliot?
I like it. I like it a lot. follow it. I use it for my writing. I use it when I go shopping. usually listen to it.
Thank you.
Darien (01:10:15.79)
I want that the highest compliment for me is to be told your podcast keeps me company when I shop Thank you so much. I strive that is the content I'm striving to make is to keep your company while running errands
Yeah, because I don't like silence. like to have stuff, to listen to stuff. So I usually am always listening to something and you guys are one of the things I listen to. Yeah, just check out the videos because they're really good and they... the book, Leo, the one about...
Lizzy will be so happy. Nice.
Elliot (01:10:54.21)
with the title Facemat. She put all of the links to all the research articles and stuff that she did and I went and looked at those as well. So yeah, it's really well organized and stuff.
Will you send me links to those videos and I can put them in the show notes for people to check out directly?
I think she also references the cruel prince as well.
Damn, I read that one. It's Holly Black. The woman knows what she's doing. All right, so let's get into speaking of, know, Sarah J. Maas, Holly Black, Gerald Tolkien. Let's talk a little bit about our fictional favorites. I don't think there are too many examples of elves or dwarves that are very specifically this Norse version entirely.
Because like we talked about there have been so many other inspirations that have been folded into what we will see as like an elf or a dwarf That for this one, I think we should throw up in the floodgates and just spend a little time talking about our faves DJ, would you like to go first?
DJ (01:11:56.77)
There's no creature living nor dead, more greedy, more vile than a dwarf. In the frozen reaches of Asgard, beneath her mighty stone peaks, do they dwell, ever hammering to forge more gold jewelry, to carve more gleaming gems, to breathe curses into their finery. Among these wretched kin is Fafnir, son of Frid-
of Hraedmar with a swollen smithing arm and a ravenous hunger for violence, both of which are eclipsed by his avarice. One spring Loki, Odin and Honeir visited Hraedmar's realm. Bearing an otter pelt, they'd skin on their journey. Horrified, Hraedmar out and tombed the Aesir, for the otter was, in truth, his third son. Freedom would not be theirs until Loki
Shit, that's the story we mentioned earlier.
DJ (01:12:48.246)
returned the hide filled with gold. Refusing to be outdone, the trickster god stuffed his pelt bursting with the cursed treasure of Andvari. Hridmar, unaware of the maligned horde, greedily exchanged the Aesir for the wealth. That night, curling his powerful arm, Fafnir strangled his father and vanished into the frosted nights with the cursed gold. And so it was that madness took him. Paranoid, his last brother would steal the treasure. Fafnir guarded it jealously.
While the curse whispered in his ear, slowly, surely twisted he became, scaled and nightmarish. His breath turned into poison. His ma fanged, his demeanor fouler. A dragon he became, the very symbol of greed. For centuries, Fafnir kept no company. But the war of the gods grows ever closer and the clink of coins runs rampant. A bulging stack on the belt of every warrior.
He craves every piece and spares no thought to shed blood for the glittering gold. He has a really sweet skin where he turns into like a griffin. It's awesome.
Here's the thing, I, one, was not prepared for you to launch into a smite lore, and that's just on me. At this point, four years into the game, I should always be prepared for DJ to launch into smite lore. Two, this finally explains why you've always been so into Fafnir, and he just, mention him a lot. I didn't realize he was-
I like him. He's He was the first transforming character in Smite.
Darien (01:14:21.27)
interesting that the top of the lore it talks about like
What is smite?
Yeah.
It's like League of Legends but third person and you play as like beings from mythology.
like Hades.
DJ (01:14:37.32)
So yeah, yeah, like Hades Zeus Odin Pele from Polynesian Amaterasu from like Japanese
like the game Hades.
Very true. Kind of. It's a battle royale game, and not a...
No, it's not even a Battle Royale. It's a MOBA, like League. Battle Royale is the 100-man versus.
It's like Hunger Games.
Darien (01:15:03.028)
I'm not in the use of games for a reason.
But Smite's like a, it's like three lanes, team of five, you all fight against each other. It's all five.
is maybe the one reoccurring bit that has survived all four years of this podcast is that we will continue to talk about Smite.
yeah, he's not smite 2 yet, which bums me out, but I'm excited to see his scaling and such in it.
I think it's interesting at the top of the lore it talks about how dwarves are evil and cruel but like Fafnir
Darien (01:15:33.56)
killed his family and became a dragon because the gold was cursed so he can't really be held responsible for that and the only other time in like major like Norse mythology that dwarves suck is when those two dwarves kill Cavassar so like by and large dwarves are pretty chill so I do find it interesting that Smite decided they all suck they're the worst
Yeah, Odin's the worst. He pushed a dwarf in the fire. Thor. That was Thor?
That was Thor. That was Thor, he just kicked him in the fire!
He just kicked him.
anger issues
Darien (01:16:12.234)
Yeah, for real for real. Yeah, tried to fish out the world serpent just to prove a point. Elliot, do you have a favorite elf and or dwarf that you would like to celebrate?
That's funny.
Elliot (01:16:25.24)
Well, I had Free Run that DJ already talked about it. But yeah, Free Run is, think, the number one rated anime on my anime list or something. But it's a very, very good anime and she's very powerful and quite a complex character. And I like her a lot.
You
Elliot (01:16:53.134)
Also, what I wanted to... we never talked about the fact that there's no women dwarves or elves mentioned.
Yeah, that's a thing. No, but that's thing. Like, historically, that's actually a line in the research that I looked at and was like, I can't, I have to finish. I have to least get a whole, a whole, I have to get it started.
There's not a lot of elves mentioned in
Darien (01:17:21.696)
Yeah, the like lineage of like, there are no dwarves, except there is one time a woman is mentioned and she is said to be the daughter of a king of the dwarves. And so like, I don't remember who that was. that Endury? Endury? Shit, I didn't write it down. But yeah, no, there is like, weirdly, no, no women are mentioned as being dwarves. And that could indicate some cultural perceptions about at the very least crafting and blacksmiths.
And if this was like a trait that was inherent to dwarves and women are never mentioned as dwarves, like it could communicate that in Nordic culture, it was not incredibly common for women to be creating things like that. But I don't know about enough about Norse culture to speak on that. That's not what this show is about, but it should be.
Not at all.
But yeah, mine would probably be Freerun or Thren, Duel. I like him as well. He's petty. And he's fun.
that's Legolas' dad.
Elliot (01:18:22.838)
Yeah, because Legolas is too basic. I like his dad more.
He's pretty basic. Yeah. Yeah.
Because this dad is a pet.
like this legless and gimme form of touching friendship that happens kind of off screen. It has some big moments. Don't get me wrong, he's got some big moments on screen. But there's a lot that happens off screen. Yeah, even still. That's what I mean. There are some big moments. Don't get me wrong. Big moments we get on screen really nice. However, sometimes it feels like wow, we just got here. Let's go. I mean, don't get me wrong. Great line from gimme or great line from gimme and
Yeah.
Elliot (01:18:44.738)
Meanwhile his dad is very sassy.
DJ (01:19:03.374)
Legless at the end. I'll die next to a f-
I never thought I'd die next to an elf. Well, how about... what is it, fighting next to a friend?
Don't.
They hate each other? I think at the start they dislike each other. that's also because Gimli is a-
another thing we didn't even get into that how like elves and dwarves are like inherently the opposite and probably from like this light elf dark elf thing but like aside from that one line in the prose edda there's nothing in Nordic texts that suggest elves and dwarves don't get along any more or less than any other group
Elliot (01:19:42.38)
Yeah. Why is it like the whole vampire werewolf thing?
Yeah. I think... I do think maybe Tolkien is personally responsible for the Elven Dwarf... enemy ship.
I wouldn't doubt that. Big fan, my favorite dark elf, all time. This is Gwen from Newman. Oh my!
didn't even.
you
DJ (01:20:09.102)
Also big fan of that dark elf culture so funny cracks me up every time
.
DJ you want a goth girl with big titties to step on you
I don't want to step on me. don't know.
When I type
DJ (01:20:24.734)
Hey, there was there was a sister that wasn't into that and she's like, yeah, I just kind of like want to hang out with you chat. Big fan of that.
True.
the
It's a web series.
DJ (01:20:40.622)
Search Newman or Josh Ulrich
It was on webtoons. It's actually it's genuinely very charming. It's about a gnome and a dark elf gal who are big t.
partner's goth Kiev
I mean, yes. But it's a, they have like a, work role workplace romance and yeah.
Yep. Yep, that one's good.
Darien (01:21:11.383)
It is genuinely very charming. They did a Christmas Carol special that we talked about on Newsmas.
small teddy goth gear.
Medium titty.
DJ (01:21:28.462)
not overly fussy but yeah bully dude yeah
and you
Okay, good, yes. Everybody shut up, I'm talk about ElfQuest now.
Okay. Oh, man.
I don't have a lot of time because I have a hard out in order to pick up some groceries, dear listener. So... Skywise! Whoa. the... one... where...
DJ (01:21:49.848)
Favorite character? Favorite arc?
Darien (01:21:57.824)
It's the second arc after they have the kids and he has to travel and they first find the castle. no, the one where they meet the elves in the mountains and they go to war against the trolls and they all fuck beforehand and then they win and then they meet the castle and the turns out this old white she wolf that's been with them the whole time was the mother of the wolf riders and DJ you can't just do that to me.
What is the show?
I'm ace, I don't play that!
Darien (01:22:30.456)
So this is comic book series from the 70s and 80s. It's recently actually officially wrapped up. It cost a couple years ago. It's been ongoing for a while by Wendy on now? It's a long time. Very, very long. It was one of the first comic books I ever read because our mother collected them. And here's the thing. We weren't allowed to read them for good reason. These are adult grown up comic books.
you
DJ (01:22:51.266)
Yeah.
DJ (01:22:57.006)
I read them when I was in fourth grade.
You should not have read them when you were in fourth grade.
You're right, but I
Ten. Ten years old. School at ten years old.
Okay. Okay. Yeah, because we have a different system in France.
Darien (01:23:16.43)
Yeah. That's why I was like, I don't know the equate. I don't know what it equals to in, in European schools. So H 10.
Yeah.
Elliot (01:23:25.23)
Every country has a different system.
That's true. It is essentially a, well not essentially, it is a fantasy series that picks up in a prehistoric world where there are these group of elves, they live in the forest, they are called wolf riders because they have an intensely telepathic relationship with this wolf pack. they, story picks up with the...
wolf riders being forced out of their forest home by the humans who believe that they are evil demonic spirits and so they burned the woods and they have to escape they go through the tunnels underground where the trolls live and they end up in a desert and they just are traveling across the desert and they are not going to survive and in the middle of the desert they find this village of other elves
totally different culture, totally different community. And it is about these two groups that have to learn how to coexist. And it's got some dated culture and gender dynamics. but by- But was also written by a woman, so not as bad as it could have been.
You know 70s and 80s
Darien (01:24:40.078)
And is very charming and it has interesting like magic lore and it has interesting it gets very sci-fi Eventually where you find out the elves were originally aliens traveling the stars Excuse me. you never got to you never got to volume 7 clearly. Yes, you
I got to volume three, I think. What is Skywise's true name?
There are eight.
The original run.
Skywise's true name is... I know Cutters is Tam because specifically Tam Lynn is a name of a...
Elliot (01:25:21.14)
L is Sarah J. Mass, that's the blonde guy.
yes sergi mass got it because it is a name from folklore of a either he's a fairy or he is a man who was kidnapped by the fey a fairy queen kidnaps him and his wife goes and saves him i have a character in my draft who is the son of a woman and uh... fairy night who is uh... uh... defected and is in disguise and they named their son tamlin
now i have to change that because Sarah J Maas and it's too popular i could still do it but it just completely distracts from the thing but that's originally why his name is that
Your elves comic book reminds me a bit of the dragon... Do you guys know the Dragon Prince? It's on Netflix. They have a bunch of elves. the culture thing as well.
Yeah!
DJ (01:26:10.04)
that.
Darien (01:26:14.434)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the Sun Elves and the Moon Elves are a little bit like Wolf Riders and then the Sun Folk.
I've only watched season 1,
It's fun.
But yeah, the you find out eventually that it's the the elves or aliens who are traveling and they made themselves look like beautiful majestic humans because they visited the Middle Ages and then the other Creatures that were their servants were like fuck this noise We don't want to go back we want to stay here and they sabotage their ship and crash land them in the ancient ancient Prehistoric times were like Neanderthal like humans not actually I felt this is the light to world of two moons They time travel. Yes and crash landed them there and so the elves
the one elf changed herself into a wolf so she could hunt for her community and ended up hooking up with one of the wolves in wolf form because she just never turned back and brought her son and her son became the first of the wolf riders and that is the lineage and all the way through and then up anyway
Darien (01:27:15.138)
that's why i wanted to talk about ofquest because i've never gotten to talk about on the podcast before but it is one of my first hyperfixes listeners you heard how fast i got full deep when the DJ started asking me questions what is scarvizor's true name
I
I remember. I can't remember. But they also have this cool lore where because they can speak telepathically in order to protect their true identities, they actually have like a true soul name and then their given name they share with everybody. And the way you know you have met your soulmate is because when you see them, their true name appears in your mind.
Yeah, just it just like and this is something that cannot be stopped and almost can't be ignored either
like Sarah.
Darien (01:27:58.536)
Sarah J. Mass was pulling a lot from lore that existed in other places. Girlie Pop's not inventing things whole cloth.
Yeah.
Elliot (01:28:07.97)
Yeah, I've never read Theory of Cheapness.
I haven't either. It's just not my jam and that's okay. Not everything has to be for me.
Yeah, I watched the video of this girl who recaps all of the books. it's... FINE! Like, unnecessarily unhinged recap of all the books. She's very popular.
What a mood. We could be here all day, all night. I feel like I need a sighted dwarf too. You know what, speaking of Aragon, I will shout out Auric from the Aragon books. That man's a ride or die. He's got Aragon's back from the jump. He's a great guy. can't remember if he dies or not. Here's the thing. We could be here all night talking about elves and stuff and dwarves because there's a lot to talk about except if you're talking about elves from North mythology, in which case there's one dude Dane like the dog.
Yeah.
DJ (01:29:01.673)
Thank
Thank you so very much for being with us at this truly unreasonable hour for you. Please tell the listeners where they can find you.
Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, it's only half past four in the morning.
Thank
The listeners, if they like Percy Jackson and want to know how it is for a person who doesn't know anything about Percy Jackson to read it for the first time, they can go on to my podcast that I have with my co-host Alice and she doesn't know the books and so we go chapter by chapter and she gives all her theories and stuff and Darian was actually on it for the Cersei chapter. I was!
Elliot (01:29:54.928)
I was loud.
You were opinionated.
Ha
Hahaha!
Darien (01:30:04.856)
I was crazed. Y'all, we did the Cersei chapter like three years ago on the podcast where I was not the version of myself I have reached today.
Let me tell you, our Stacey episode would be very different today. That may be in our roundup. This is first time the listeners will have heard about it. DJ and I have talked about how after this season, before getting into whatever we're going to get into next, potentially doing a handful of episodes that are revisiting topics we did on our podcast of Poseidon era. So it'd be like Dionysus, parentheses, Muse's version.
It's mostly like the first season.
Yeah, but there's a couple that even the later ones around like. Zerci would be a very different episode today. I can tell you that for sure.
couple and see.
Elliot (01:30:53.358)
You can have a preview if you go on the internet.
That's true, I don't need to do a Cersei episode, it's over on Elliot's Podcast. And Elliot, what is your podcast called?
it's called the Demigod pod. can find it wherever you listen to podcasts and yeah, we have fun there. We get distracted very easily, but we do our best. And Alice is way too smart for her own good. It's very, very hard to try and gaslight her into thinking.
Like she managed to guess Luke was the twist villain in chapter 9 or something?
is very impressive.
Elliot (01:31:40.224)
And it was just with the prophecy. Just with the prophecy. that's how she guessed. She was like, yeah, Luke. And so I had to guess like her for like half a year that it wasn't Luke.
That is a challenge. Like with my friend Kelce, sometimes we'll be like engaging in media that I've already seen and been watching with her. And so she'll predict something and she'll be totally right because she's very good at consuming media. And I have gotten the habit of like if she guesses something, whether it's right or wrong, I just look at her and I ask, do you want me to tell you?
The answer is usually, no, I don't want to know. And that helps me not give it away as long as I'm reacting the same way every time. Do you want me to tell you?
For me, I will usually say, explain and then try and contradict it, whether it's correct or not.
That is true. Yeah, you're truly gaslighting your code
Elliot (01:32:40.174)
So yeah, mean, you could also follow us on Instagram. have, so basically every episode I ask questions to Alice, like, that I'm pretty dumb. And I post them on Instagram so that their listeners can answer as well. And we read the answers on the podcast. So yeah, follow us.
I you on Instagram, but my feed has not been showing me this post. I'm gonna have to hump for him, like a hump for a...
It's not the host, it's stories, but I put them in the highlights.
Okay, I'm gonna get into the highlights then. Fantastic.
You can answer all of them. Just be free.
Darien (01:33:21.452)
Yay! my info dump's gonna be great. Obviously, listeners, link to Elliot's show on their Instagram is gonna be the show notes. Go give it a follow. It's super fun. It's such a cool dynamic. don't think...
I don't think there's any other, I think there are ones where neither of the listeners have read the books they're on now because they did all the ones that they read and now have gone to later ones or they don't remember or listeners are like, when we were going through the trials, we're having it, but there was a point in time where I hadn't, but I can't think of any of the other shows on top of my head that have that dynamic of you've heard it all and then someone else is brand new.
We're just on book two, so like we have a while to go.
So f- Well, Elliot, thank you again so much for joining us. This has been a delight. All right, listeners, we will be back in your ears on Tuesday, November 5th to talk about a big one. We finally reached Asgard. And until then, don't be like Zeus.
Nice.
Elliot (01:34:07.16)
Thank you for having me.
DJ (01:34:20.024)
Don't be like Zeus.
Don't be like Zeus.
News of Mythology is created and hosted by Darren and DJ Smart. It's edited by Darren Smart. The show is produced by Darren and DJ Smart as well as...
Tim O'Connor, The Crystal Conman, Nicholas Miller. Our music is Athens Festival by Martin Hayne and our cover art is by Audrey Miller. You can find her on Instagram at Bombshell Nutshell Art.
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DJ (01:34:51.816)
You can also support the show by leaving a review at love the podcast.com forward slash muses of mythology or tell a friend why you love the show.
free to check out all of our episodes and episode transcripts at musedepthology.com.
Thanks for listening.