Story 97: Fenrir’s A Good Boy (Til He Turns…)
“This hand is mine now.”
It's time to tackle the original Big, Bad Wolf, Fenrir!
Other topics include the under-examined tragedy of Fenrir's backstory, a collection of no longer perplexing paradoxes, the foot guy, super cool natural phenomena that may have inspired the legend of Fenrir's sons, and a satisfying conclusion of the DJ Interrupts the Show to Talk About the Time Wolves Sieged Paris bit.
Spoilers for Hogfather, SMITE, Puss and Boots: The Last Wish, and The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents
Content Warning: This episode contains mentions of and conversations about death, violence against animals, dismemberment, animal attack, child death, infant mortality, and hunting.
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About Us
Muses of Mythology was created and co-hosted by Darien and DJ Smartt.
Our music is Athens Festival by Martin Haene. Our cover art is by Audrey Miller. Find her on Instagram @bombshellnutshellart
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Find us @MusesOfMyth on Instagram. Find all of our episodes and episode transcripts at MusesOfMythology.com
Darien (00:00.172)
Muses Mythology is a spoiler-heavy podcast. We're going to discuss not just the events of this book, but the Ridenverse as a whole and really anything that we feel is relevant. You can find full spoiler warnings in the show notes. Simic is also proposing that Skull and... god, what is the other dog's name?
That's an understatement.
Darien (00:28.142)
you
Darien (00:36.622)
Welcome to Muse of Mythology, a podcast where we explore her ancient myths to become part of modern pop culture through the lens of Rick Riordan's Magnus Chase and the gods of Asgard. This is Story 97, Fenrir. I'm your co-host and podcasting muse, Darian Smart. Joining me is my host and brother, DJ.
As ever to do today, I'm Dude2TheMuse and don't forget, wolves are a problem.
Interesting. Are they a problem, Always been a problem? Always been a Any specific times that come to mind for you? So let's put a pin in that. We're going to circle back. Let's muse around the garden for a moment.
They're a problem. Yeah? They've always been a problem.
DJ (01:05.123)
The Middle Ages.
DJ (01:09.326)
you
DJ, what?
Amusemas is back? Obviously it's back. It's December, of course it's back. Amusemas is here.
We're within 12 days from December 25th, so yes, Muses is back. But that's not what we're gonna talk about right now!
It's kind of what we're gonna talk about. It's related.
Darien (01:32.13)
Well, what?
DJ (01:39.662)
Claire Gurland, thank you so much.
Thank you so much to our newest Camp Counselor patron!
You have chosen a wonderful time to become a patron because yeah, Amusemas is here. We love doing it and we're so glad that you get to hear it.
Best time of the year, truly.
Darien (01:59.874)
Yep, we're so excited to share it with you and all of our patrons. Thank you again, waking up and seeing that notification filled me with Christmas electricity, a reference you now get.
Yeah, you now get to enjoy it. Or you already got it because you might be hip, you know? Exactly.
You'd be really cool and you like Team Starkids.
Patreon.com forward slash Muses mythology. You can better believe it. It is there once again and today's episode is also super special
one.
Darien (02:36.47)
It is. is today. If you're listening to the day this episode airs, it is the. The anniversary of the Charismas Carol adaptation we are discussing. So fun timing, excellent things all around. Thank you, Claire, again so much. It means the world to us.
1984.
Yes.
DJ (02:55.232)
It's outstanding. And I hope to see more of you there, honestly. Just because, again, Musemas is such a wonderful thing that we do and we love doing it. And we love doing this podcast in general. Thank you guys so much for supporting us.
Yep, the support has really helped us continue this podcast in times that we're trying in our personal lives and allowed us to continue to dedicate the time and energy and resources into it. So no, when we say thank you, that is not just, lip service. It is for real from the bottom of our hearts. Thank you. Thank you.
Now back to the show.
Alright DJ, you were saying wolves have been a problem for like ever. Zerp.
Wolves are problem. There's a reason why Big Bad Wolf was such a thing, a prominent thing throughout like all of European culture.
Darien (03:40.563)
For sure, DJ, can you stop trying to do the end of the episode first?
End of the episode. What are you talking about? I'm just saying wolves are a problem.
You're really going out of order of my notes for this episode. know what you're on about.
This is ridiculous. feel attacked. feel assaulted.
By a wolf with large fangs and sharp claws. Please, we all know I am a cat person.
DJ (03:59.308)
Yeah, I'm looking at her right now.
DJ (04:06.062)
Wolf. Sharp things and claws and she's just mauling me right now. I am being attacked simply because I say wolves are a problem.
Well, Tina Angua is one of my favorite Discworld characters, so I'm just living up to her reputation. No, OK, I mean, yes, all true. Let's talk about one big bad problem in particular. DJ, what do you remember about Fenrir in the Magnus Chase books?
He was whispering, Magnus Sweet Nothings.
I hate the way you said that! No! Canceled! Blocked! Banned!
Well, he was just he sent wolves after Magnus's after Magnus and ended up killing Magnus's mom or maybe specifically after Magnus's mom was it?
Darien (04:52.192)
You know what I was trying to remember? If it was Loki or if it was Fenris. I keep saying Fenrir. Ryarden calls him Fenris. Both are correct. I want that established. Fenrir and Fenris and Fenris Wolf are all correct.
I think
DJ (05:05.472)
I know I'm as Fenrir from Smite, but some other people probably introduced him as Fenris from other things, maybe this specifically.
Yeah, in the Edes we'll talk about it's often Fenrir, but I see it as Fenriswolf. So like any any way I could not find a specific like any sort of like scholarly
Like this is the only- why? Is it ever Fenris on its own?
mmmm...Ryarden uses it as Fenris on his but I don't think so
If it's not Fenris on its own, like the Eddas, then it's probably Fenris Wolf or Fenrir for short.
Darien (05:38.912)
of one word.
Darien (05:42.99)
Yes, probably that. said when I was telling our brother Jared that we were going to record an episode about Fenris Wolf, he was like, no, Fenrir. And then we looked it up. And the result, if you look up Fenris, is Fenrir. So yeah, I was just a thing. That's why I mention it, because I had a conversation about it earlier. So yeah. All right. Yeah. He does send some wolves to go. They didn't want to kill Magnus, because they knew Magnus would be able to get the sword. But they did want to kill his mom.
That's what it was. Sent to kill his mom.
Feels like bad plan, but okay.
is tied up with a string of paradoxes that were paradoxes at the time. No longer paradoxes because we have better understanding of this world. Tried to convince Jack to cut him loose through the hands of cert specifically failed is on an island that only shows up.
summer solstice? Or is it like-
Darien (06:41.214)
Yes, and I think it seems to be a Riordan invention. Yeah. island that they can't find.
It shows up like the entrance to the island shows up one day a year. I can't remember. I think summer solstice was specifically for the ship of nails because the ice is weakest at that time.
Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, that's right.
Because it's not... I don't think it's the winter solstice either though. It might be because it is winter time during this... ...adventure.
Yeah, that's right. Okay. Yeah, that's basically he's a wolf. Do you remember what he looks like?
DJ (07:23.65)
Big ass fucking wolf.
actually no the chapter is literally called the small bad wolf magnet normal looks like a regular wall formal wolf super on it
normal sized wolf. Wolves are big as fuck Wolves are big as fuck though. They're like three times the size of a husky. Yeah, no, wolves These are big fucking dogs.
I think we forget that because when we see wolves in movies, those are dogs.
Yeah, they're just like superimposing dogs.
Darien (07:51.692)
Or they've used dogs, because you're not going to use wolf on your set.
Yeah, but then you can also get like a Malamute, you know, those are big fucking dog No, but you'd CG impose them That's what we do with wool
don't look like wolves though, they look like Malamute.
Darien (08:06.806)
about movies now I'm talking about when we would use like
Dogs. We probably still use dogs and superimpose wolf designs on them.
We just watched, I my friends just watched The Hogfather and the movie ends with, in the book, there are wolves. And in the movie, they say they are dogs because they are dogs. They're also barking, but they're all wagging their tails. They know they're doing so good. These little actor dogs, they know they're doing such a good job. yeah, wolves, even this, like, it's just a wolf-sized wolf. I'm like, that's still...
Thanks.
Darien (08:42.158)
That's still big and terrifying. But we get he the thing with Fenrir is that he is very persuasive with them. And to try to avoid but at one point in time they were literally drawn. He is the son of Loki. Exactly. And they were actually drawing him closer and closer because he's in this meadow of flowers and acts as like a barrier. If no one if he can't get out especially because he's bound he can't move but they can't he can't get at them.
No.
DJ (09:02.358)
Yeah.
Darien (09:11.638)
long as they are outside of the barrier of flowers, which might just be the length of which he can go. But he starts to like fill them with rage is what it's described as how, cause he says like, yeah, he Magnus's mom and he's thinking about that. killed her. Yep. Yeah. He killed Blitz's dad. He is, harassing, like hounding Sam and just drawing them closer. Not impacted because.
Yeah.
DJ (09:27.822)
Father Blitzen
DJ (09:37.974)
Earth is just...
He doesn't hear it at all.
Because can't hear it. you can't... Wolf is talking.
He's just like snapping, he's like snap out of it.
They're getting close and at one point in time Blitz literally is able to stop them from getting closer and I talked about that I really I think we talked about that when we talked about the book forever ago I love that sequence really good, but yeah During the the fight he is able to get Blitz or Jack to cut a couple of the bonds, but then they are able to Come out on top and use the new rope that Blitz Yeah, let's created
Darien (10:17.471)
to bind him. And that's Curtains on Fenris.
Yeah, that's all we get from Fenris at all. doesn't do anything else the rest of the series.
Yeah, well he will get out at Ragnarok, but Ragnarok never actually happens, so don't worry about it. DJ, what do you know about Fenris in Norse mythology?
He was a problem. He allowed the gods to try three different things to bind him. The first two straight up just didn't work. And the last one was the magically enchanted string of paradoxes. And in order to get him to stay still, Tyr put his hand in Fenrir's mouth. And when it trapped him, he took it.
There's some hand that's mine now.
Darien (11:12.984)
He's keeping it.
Yeah. I mean, I obviously I know he was just like a bigger problem causing a bunch of issues. He's destined to
He is specifically destined to kill Odin. Yes. There's probably more, but.
DJ, what if I told you that the only issue Finris ever called was being prophesized to kill Odin?
Sounds right.
Darien (11:37.646)
So let me this this this statement kind of weird to make right after our Norns episode We talked about the north being not like a fatalistic and the interpretations being really more of what you ought to do. Yeah
Menreers ought to kill Odin, okay?
So the we get we've already talked about Fenrir quite a bit specifically in our Ragnarok episode, because that's like his big showcase, right? Yeah, it is in. The the Volspa, where we get the passage of ships are sailing from most full and Loki is steering and Surt has come across and the Bifrost is broken. Then Frigg's second sorrow comes about when Odin advances to fight against the wolf and Belly's bright slayer against Surt.
then Frigg's dear beloved must fall. And so that is what the big thing about Fenrir is, is that he's been prophesied by the Volspa. This is where we get all of that prophecy, it's what she is seeing, to kill Odin. And so, and we also in the same one, get, know, Jormungandr is the world serpent and will drown the world and thrashing and kill Thor in that fight. Snorri tells us a little bit more about Fenrir.
And we talked about him in, actually, the Hell episode as well, because he's Fenris, or he's Hell's sister. Hell is his sister. That's the way to say that. Talking about the children that Loki had with Angerboda, sorrow-bringer, an ogres who lived in giant land. Loki had three children. One was Fenris Wolf, the second was the Midgar Serpent, and the third was Hell. now I'm quoting the Gelfundingining. I occurred to that I just took a book, and DJ could see that. But, dear listener, you couldn't.
Darien (13:19.938)
When the gods discovered that these siblings were being brought up in giant land, they learned through prophecies that misfortune and evil were expected from these children. All the gods became aware that harm was on its way, first because of the mother's nature, but even more so because of the father's. And so the All-Father sent the gods to seize the children and bring them to him. When they appeared before him, he threw the serpent into the deep sea that surrounds all the lands. And then he threw hell down into Niflheim and made her ruler of the Nine Worlds. We've talked all about that.
And for Finryr, they tie him up, but not right away. Because here's what Sonore says. The Aesir raised the wolf at home, but only Tyr had the courage to approach and feed it. But the gods saw how the wolf grow every day and knew that all the prophecies foretold that it was destined to harm them. So here's.
Hate to see it.
Do you remember that show Sons of Tucson? Yeah. When they brought a coyote. Remember the episode? There was an episode where they found a coyote and they thought it was a stray dog so they brought it in. Maybe it was a wolf but it was one of those wild dogs. And so they brought it in and one guy, that made me laugh because it's like.
Yeah.
Darien (14:25.25)
I don't remember that, I do know. No, I remember the show, but.
Darien (14:38.03)
It was there Arizona. It's probably Coyote.
DJ (14:45.036)
When the nanny was talking to some other dude about it, the dude that he was talking to was like, know, coyotes are great pets until they turn. And then the guy's like, what? He's like, yeah, yeah, sometimes they do turn on their owners and get a little.
Wild animals are domesticated.
And it's like, and the episode, end up giving this coyote to like the bully family.
God okay, I do remember that that I remember
But it's just like Fenrir was a great dog until he turned.
Darien (15:23.2)
I'm
He was a wonderful pet, just a good boy. Until he turned. That's just one minute.
And that is the title of the episode, probably. So, or at the very least, the quote I'm going to post about it. Anyway, I just thought that was kind of fucked up. And also, they are the children, is the other thing. The children are being brought up. And so they show up, and immediately Odin throws Jotunheim, Jotunheim, you, into.
the ocean of Midgard and sends Hel to go run Niflheim. But they decide they're gonna keep Fenrir around. Raise him. And specifically Tyr is the primary caretaker of Fenrir, because he's the only one brave enough to go and actually directly interact with him. And he's growing really fast, is the other thing.
we might be able to.
DJ (16:25.698)
Yeah, he's a wolf.
So, but that's the thing. They haven't actually done anything yet. Like, none of them have caused harm or caused destruction.
Yeah.
DJ (16:38.136)
Has that stopped gods from fucking with fate before? Trying to.
No, but you trying to, no, of course not. That's the points. Maybe we'll argue at the end of this that that's actually what leads to all of this because I don't know, man. I think I'd also want to eat Odin after what happened here today. So what they decide is they're good. Like you said, they try three different tethers. So the first one they try is called lading.
They bring it to the wolf and invite him to test his strength on it. So they frame it as a game. like, hey, see how strong you are. And the first one, he has like no problems. He just like stretches the muscles in his legs and it pops. And so they make a second one. It's twice as strong and this one's called Dromi. They asked the wolf to test the fetter, telling him that he would become renowned for his strength if such magnificent forging was unable to hold him.
And he's like, well, even though the fetter is strong, I'm even stronger since when I broke the last one. And he recognized that to become renowned, he would have to place himself in danger. So he let the fetter be put on him. Again, it is like, this is really sad. Like, I think I didn't realize this is super sad because Fenrir doesn't know what's actually happening.
yeah.
Darien (18:00.354)
He genuinely is like, if I want to be hero, I have to something dangerous and prove myself.
These guys have fed me, kept me warm. This is awesome, And they want me to become renowned. That's great. Awesome. Let's run.
Yeah. And so when, you know, he breaks himself from Dormi, Dromi. And so then the Allfather sent Skirnir, Bright One, Freys messenger to Swafleheim. And there he had some dwarves make the fetter called Glepnir. DJ, you said it was made of some paradoxes. Do you remember what any of them are?
Paradox.
Hair from a woman's beard.
DJ (18:40.558)
That's kind of the only one I remember.
Noise of cat's footsteps, the beard of a woman, roots of a mountain, sinews of a bear, the breath of a fish, and the spittle of a bird. Though previously you had no knowledge of these matters, you now quickly
this is normie like yeah i've seen a bearded woman like down the street for me actually
You now can quickly see the proof that you were not deluded. You must have noticed that a woman has no beard, a cat's movement makes no sound, and the mountains have no roots. Truly, I say, all you've been told is equally reliable, even though you have no way to test some things.
Actually, we do now. I've seen a bearded woman. Yes! I hear the cats make steps. Mountains do have roots. They're called continental shelves. What was the other ones? Breath of a... They breathe water.
Darien (19:23.086)
What's the fish?
The sinews of a bear and spittle of a bird.
I don't think birds have spit.
Go on! have no idea!
uh... and i don't know what a sinew is specifically
Darien (19:39.66)
Yeah, I thought Sinu was...
Maybe the vikings didn't know how to properly carve up a bear. Because it's like strong fibrous tissue that connects muscles to bone.
seems cool.
Darien (19:57.442)
Yeah, I don't...
Do bears have sinews?
So really what it is and also like yeah cats have footsteps. I can hear our cats coming down the stairs
It looks like they're really short. So they're either easily missed.
So, yeah, and on cat footsteps, not only do you hear the sound of cat's foot, I can also tell which cat is coming down the stairs.
DJ (20:21.838)
Dude, Vivi had heavy footsteps. That was a heavy...
Big cat. He's a big old boy, Vivi Cat. Yeah, you could be like, that Vivi or a human man coming down the stairs? So the idea is that these are all impossible elements, right? And that that is what makes this bond so strong. It's made up of impossible things. And we'll just move on. But also, the fetter was smooth and soft as silk ribbon. It was reliable and strong, as you will now hear. And so they bring
the dwarfs give it to the Aesir, who then travel out to a lake called Amsvarsnir and sent for the wolf to accompany them, and then went to an island called Langhvi, and they showed the wolf the silky band, offering to let him try to break it. They told him that despite its siminist, it was somewhat stronger than it appeared. Passing it among themselves, each tested the band's strength in his hands. No one can pull it apart.
Nevertheless, they said that the wolf would be able to break it. Then the wolf said, it seems to me that the ribbon like this one, which is so narrow a band, offers no renown even if I break it apart. But if it is made with cunning and treachery, even though it looks unimpressive, I will not permit this band to be put on my legs. Makes sense. And basically like, no, no, you'll be able to break it. You already broke the other ones that were were visibly more strong. So like, this is fine.
They should have, why didn't they just enchant a chain? Like another chain.
Darien (21:43.052)
Well, cause yeah, this, I don't know. But the gods then say, but if you were unable to break free from this band, the gods will have no reason to fear you and then we will free you.
Fuck you.
Yeah, and once again, Finrair is like, I don't know about that. Like if you were to buy me and I can't get free, like it would be a long time before any of you would actually help me. I'm unwilling to allow that ban to be put on me. Rather than questioning my courage, why not let one of you place his hand in my mouth as a pledge that there is no treachery in this offer? And the gods looked at each other, realizing the seriousness of the problem they now faced.
Darien (22:21.142)
No one was willing to hold out his hand until Tyr raised his right hand and laid it in the wolves mouth. And again, Tyr, the one who has been personally taking care of Fenrir since the time he was brought here as a child. I just think.
Chad, it's a tear. He's a homie.
I mean, I was gonna say, I feel like the deep tragedy of this narrative is vastly overlooked. Like, this is so sad.
Like this is Tyr being like, we are tricking you and I'm giving you my hand.
You are the one you trust me the most so you will believe me that I am brave enough to do it.
DJ (22:57.806)
Well, it's like I imagine Tyr probably did put his hand in there and didn't take it out when it was tied solely for Fenrir to take his hand because there is treachery.
I never thought about that, the idea that he It doesn't even try to get away, and it's like I'm giving this up because he doesn't like
There's a moment between it's tied and but when he tries to break it that tear definitely could have taken his hand out. Yep, but he doesn't
Yep. But then the wolf strained against the fetter. The bands only hardened. The more he struggled, the stronger the band became. They all laughed except Tyr. He lost his hand. Yeah. That's the line, he lost his hand. When the Aesir saw the wolf was truly bound, they took apart the, they took that part that hung loose from the fetter. And then so they tie him to stone stuff. And then they're not done. So they only have to tie him and then fasten to the fetter around so it can't, like he can't hobble anywhere.
As the wolf struggled, he opened his mouth. He gaped horribly, trying to bite them, but they slipped a sword into his mouth. The hilt stuck in his lower gums and the blade in the upper gums, wedging his jaw open. He growled menacingly, saliva drooled from his mouth, forming the river called Van, Hope. There he remains until Ragnarok.
DJ (24:09.804)
Yep, it's rough.
That's rough! Hate to see it.
Kind of mean, honestly. Yeah! Why'd you guys go do that? You raised this dog. He's your pup. boy.
Ha ha.
Darien (24:19.854)
I know that's what makes it like they didn't just immediately Be like hey, challenge you to this contest and just tie him up It's the they raised him first and then in the other ones are trying to tie him up We're like it'll prove you're super strong and if you can't break it, we'll just know we can trust you Yeah, right like that's cruel and it's and the question is just like well because he's going to kill Odin at Ragnarok and I'm like now he most certainly
Yes!
Which definitely doesn't do it. him. Yeah! Now we have the fate thing of like, well yeah, Finn, we ought to eat you at Ragnarok after what you did to him. So that is the, didn't, when I talked in the last episode, like I don't really have any examples of the gods doing
Hey
DJ (25:07.062)
It was like Fenrir might eat you. well, I got a time up. Well, now Fenrir ought to eat you.
Yeah, but it's different because they've been actually right after that, it's gonna go funding and in gangleri asked like, why didn't they just kill the wolf? And I think we talked about in the Ragnarok episode, and the reason is like, because this is such a sacred place, they're not going to defile it. But that's not a good reason. Like, that's really not goofy. So yeah, and then the next time we see Fenrir again is at Ragnarok when he goes out, he kills Odin and then
Goofy.
Darien (25:41.548)
Right after that happens, back in the Volspa, then comes victory father's strong son, Vidar, to battle the beast of slaughter. With his hand, he sends to Loki's son's heart his sword to stab, then his father is avenged. So Odin's son, Vidar, is the one who kills Finner. DJ, do you know? So that mentioned it was stabbed with a sword, but Snorri presents us with a little extra mythic flavor that Ryoradin does mention in the Magnus books. Do you remember?
what this dude's deal is.
Fadar? Yeah. Is he the foot guy?
DJ (26:18.87)
He's the guy with his shoes made out of a bunch of shoes.
So going back to the Gilfenningening, we're just really bouncing back and forth. Going back to the Gilfenningening, the wolf will swallow Odin and that will be his death. But immediately afterwards, Vidar will stride forward and thrust one of his feet into the lower jaw of the wolf. He wears on that foot the shoe that has been cymbaled through the ages by collecting extra pieces that people cut away from toes and heels when fashioning their shoes. Thus, those who want to help the Aesir should throw these extra pieces away. With one hand, he takes hold of the wolf's upper jaw.
and rips apart its mouth and this will be the wolf's death.
think you should be throwing your toes and heels away from your shoes. Snow doesn't treat those appendages nicely.
Well, I think it's not, you don't cut them away. It's the extra of when you are repaired. But yeah, that's a, you remember that scene from one of the King Kong movies where Kong just absolutely rips that T-Rex's jaw. Yeah. Yeah, the Peter Jackson one.
DJ (27:18.402)
The one that had a shockingly outstanding video game.
So that's what Avedar does to- in the Vultzpa, he just stabs him with a sword. In- Rips him in half, which considering the fact that apparently this wolf's jaw has been like forced open for ages by a sword? Yeah, probably wasn't that hard to do. So that's crazy. That's what Finru does.
This one he kicks him in jaw and then fucking
DJ (27:45.314)
Nice. Hate to see it.
Do want to hear about his kids? Sure. So, Finryr has a couple of sons.
before or after he was tied up.
You know, that's a great question. Maybe probably before. The timeline feels like probably Snorri gives us a a good description of of none of these boys. It's chapter 12 of the gulfeningening is called the wolves. And Gangleri says the sun moves quickly as almost as if she fears something. She cannot go faster on her journey, even if she were afraid of our own death.
Maybe, but we don't know.
Darien (28:23.458)
Then Hai answered, It is not surprising that she moves with such speed. The one chasing her comes close, and there is no escape for her except to run. Who is chasing her? asking Leary. Hai said, There are two wolves. The one who is chasing her is called Skull. He frightens her, and he will eventually catch her. The other is called Hati Horvindensensan.
Hati Hovind, End and Son.
He runs in front of her to try to catch the moon and this will happen and you're like That's odd. What's up with that? Well, then we're jump back over to the Vulpah Who's gonna give us a little passage? Earlier before she gets to Ragnarok in the East there sat an old woman in ironwood and gave birth there to Finra's offspring One of them is in trollish shape shall be the snatcher of the moon
Okay.
that is reiterated in another poem on Grimir's sayings, it comes up. Skull, a wolf is called, who pursues the shining goddess to the protecting woods. The other is Hati. He is Harvintir's son, who must run before heaven's bright bride. And so that crazy word that I was trying to say and just stumbling through, that is a reference to Fenrir.
DJ (29:42.434)
Me?
The Hardventinir roughly probably means great wolf and is believed to be another name for Fenrir. So that's how we have the comment of there's like the giant woman who gives birth to Fenrir's sons and then this reference of this other wolf being literally the great wolf's son. That's how we get the connection of them being Fenrir's sons who chase the sun and the moon. And we've talked about at Ragnarok, they swallow the sun and the moon and plunges everything into chaos. I learned something interesting today.
to learn.
Do you know what a sun moon or a wolf moon is?
No.
Darien (30:18.83)
I'm gonna show you a picture of it. Our sundog or moondogs actually is what.
this happens up north, doesn't it?
Yeah, so it is when there seems to be two bright almost new suns on either side of the Sun and it happens also with the moon
Nice, that's awesome.
So you can look that up. It's pretty cool. It's also called a parhelion, which is literally, it's like a halo caused by the sunlight reflecting on ice crystals in the atmosphere. So it usually happens around 22 degrees.
DJ (31:02.456)
So it's a frozen rainbow.
Yeah, yeah, DJ, it's basically a frozen rainbow. The same thing happens with the moon. And so some scholars, well, specifically a scholar I'm referencing is a Rudolf Semek, who believed it was a nature mythological interpretation in the case of Skoll and Hattie, who pursues the moon. Such an interpretation suggests the wolves may be intended to describe the phenomenon of Paleohelia and Paracelina or sun dogs and moon dogs.
as these are called sun wolf in Scandinavian languages. So, you you see things in nature. What is that? That's the wolf chasing the sun.
nights.
DJ (31:42.146)
Hell yeah, that's sick.
And I thought that was pretty cool. Now.
Yeah, I wonder if a lot of rainbows happen up north.
Maybe, that's why the bifrost is such a rainbow bridge. It's just more frequent and common. Maybe. Maybe if light's already doing that. True. So Cinec doesn't.
Figured the rainbow bridge would be Aurora Borealis.
Darien (32:05.038)
Can you see a Roroborialis in Scandinavia?
Sometimes you can see it in like Michigan.
our Broyas hadn't come up yet when we did the Bifrost episode because that actually sounds...
kind of forgot. Horror Borealis is such an it's so cool but we forget about it because we never experienced it. Yeah right I want to see it so we're too far south.
doesn't sound real to me.
Darien (32:27.982)
Far South. You go up there, but it's like really cold. God damn. So an explanation for a cool natural phenomenon isn't the only thing Schemek is bringing to the table in regards to Fenrir and these two other wolves. He also theorizes that they were probably at one point in time all the same figure. No, not a real wolf.
all a real wolf. Why not? Wolves were a problem in Europe, Darren. I don't know if you know about this.
I've heard it. There yet. Put the pin back. Put it back.
Paris was not
Darien (33:06.84)
Do you recall, speaking of our hell episode, you recall Garm?
The big wolf,
Yeah, Beast of Hell who will devour Tyr at Ragnarok. I think I mentioned in that episode that scholars believe that this, that figure and Finryr probably once upon a time the same wolf, which kind of tracks thematically because obviously Finryr is going to want to kill Odin for what he did, but maybe he was also going to have a grudge against Tyr specifically. So why wouldn't he go after
Simic is also proposing that Skull and Hati were probably also a story of Fenrir wherein he would be the one to devour the sun. that doesn't come from just like, mythology and stories change over time. There is a passage from one of the songs that we have the mention of the two wolves and two other poetic edda. So in the earlier ones I cited from the poetic eddas. So it's obviously wasn't a thing that Snorri and Vince hold cloth, but
In the poem Vath Thrunir Sayings, Odin says, much have I traveled, much have I tried out, much have I attested the powers. From where will a sun come into the smooth heaven when Finryr has destroyed this one? And we have talked about that in the Ragnarok episode. Elf radiance will bear a daughter before Finryr destroys her. She will ride when the powers die a girl on her mother's paths. because we know that there will be another world after Ragnarok. That's where the sun comes from.
Darien (34:39.148)
But in this particular instance, Odin is asking, or Odin is saying, it is going to be Fenrir who will devour the sun, not Skull. So that's where the idea comes from, that there was probably a time where there was just one big-ass problem wolf in North mythology, and it was Fenrir, and then it got broken up into other wolves. But still, mostly Fenrir is the problem we need to worry about.
nice.
And you know what DJ, believe it or not, that's all I've got for Fenrir.
I do believe it. was a lot.
Mostly I was like, it's all things that we have loosely covered The one piece that really struck me that I hadn't clocked before the fact that the AC or raised him at their house Or an X amount of time before they decide. He's just gonna end up being a problem So let's tie him up and leave him and stick a sword in his mouth and leave him on an island All right DJ know what were you saying about wolves being a problem?
DJ (35:12.654)
It's Fenrir, it's Fenrir.
DJ (35:23.712)
Raised in
DJ (35:33.112)
Hate to see it. See it? So mean, so rude.
DJ (35:39.864)
So, I mean, wolves were just largely a problem in all of Europe. They... Again, there's a reason why you see the big red wolf in so many European tales and a lot of Germanic tales. England, one of the kings of England, I can't remember which one, quite literally put a bounty out on just wolves. And England, for the longest time, for like 400 years, has just been wolf-free. They've recently introduced them.
Yeah.
DJ (36:09.838)
like this decade, I think in 2021, maybe 2017, 2014, somewhere around there, right? Yeah. They just started to reintroduce wolves to the environment. And I'm like, why would you do that? Is it really? Is it for 400 years you haven't had wolves and suddenly you're saying it's affecting it now?
Because ecology.
Darien (36:31.086)
I mean, it probably has been a problem for a while, and they just didn't realize it because there wasn't. I've seen. Why these problems were happening.
I think maybe it was like there's like a deer overpopulation or something like that and wolves did need to be introduced and they're not nearly as much of a problem as they are now and I understand that but wolves did in fact siege Paris. fucking crazy
They did see each other.
You say from me, but the fact that you said you Google it and couldn't find anything on it means that you didn't Google hard enough. I literally just searched Wolf Fights Paris and I found what I read.
Oh yeah, no, I know this time I found it. Yeah, I can also this time we'll let you know the sources of how we know this.
DJ (37:13.152)
I could actually. that it really it really did happen.
did happen. That was the I wanted to-
It's like the these wolves, this pack of wolves and this specific pack of wolves just was attacking Paris for multiple days. a lot of people were, you know, dying and the guards were on like the wolves were finding out guard times. And when was it when guards were like on shift changes and when that would that's a good time to strike, they would specifically avoid areas with crossbows. These wolves were nuts.
What year do you know? I don't know if we're talking about the same situation.
1400s. it's like they straight up avoided specific areas in order to maximize getting these people. And like the wolf pack fought against the guard captain and the guard captain killed the wolf but died to his wounds later.
Darien (38:10.392)
So there have been a bunch of times when wolves have been a problem in Paris.
Wolves are just in general a problem in Europe again, but yeah, I do believe a bunch of times.
So there are, think that if, dear listeners, if anyone knows the original episode where DJ first decided he was gonna tell me the story about the time the wolves sieged Paris, let me know, because that's an important piece of this podcast. can't. But.
bonus episode. That original narrative that DJ presents, I have found in my research for this episode, is an amalgamation of multiple wolf incidents.
It's way better than probably whatever happened.
Darien (38:54.06)
whatever happened is also real craziness, but the elements of the wolf attacks happening a lot, the getting around the guard, the fighting one of the specific guards, those
Those all happen at like different
And I couldn't find one of the guard but I did find in the card a retired militia man went after and this was just one beast who was the problem Cornered the beast got him down with a pitchfork and had him pinned for 15 minutes until another dude showed up when it was able to problem A big one that we would call the siege of Paris happened in the 1400s
Dude, wolves were a problem.
Darien (39:38.432)
And it was during the Hundred Year War. And during the Hundred Year War, there happened to be a number of brutal winters in Europe. So bad were these winters that the river Seine around Paris froze solid that you could walk across it. And stories say that it was so cold, bottles of wine were freezing in people's solace. So when you have...
Sounds about right.
DJ (40:03.699)
When you have alcohol freezing, that's fucking cold.
When you have bad, bad winters, you tend to have not a lot of food, not just for people, but for other creatures in the area. So it is believed what initially brought the wolves to Paris, because wolves don't...
fuck around with people. aren't interested in it. They'll usually leave those spaces alone unless they're really hungry. And like I said, it's during the 1400s, lifespans are not long.
Lifespans are at most. I mean if you're if you are lucky you can if you're lucky you can definitely get up to like standard human life. Average like late 40s. Probably lower than that because of infant infant deaths. But kids died an awful lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, would never be able to live long. Yeah.
Darien (40:57.442)
that's that's where the average comes
But if we remove... think if you remove... the outlier. You take that out.
like 12 and under, it jumps up drastically.
Because yeah, so that's where that is. still people died. And there were a lot of fresh graves. And so initially the wolves were rolling up and digging up graves to find the still kind of fresh meat that was there. But in time it did escalate to the wolves just straight up attacking people. And this went on for a long
yeah, it wasn't just like a little bit. It was a
DJ (41:44.046)
Yeah, there were attacks even in like the 1700s.
And the, oh yeah, no, this, went on for years and years, but this specific situation that happened in the 1400s lasted from 1421 to 1439, was where wolf attack was just a regular problem in the city of Paris. And the documentation we have of this comes from a diary of the time. It is called the Journal of a Bourgeoisie of Paris.
And the author of this document is unknown. They don't actually know who this person is, but it is this incredible document we have that was an account of like the politics, war, and everyday life of Paris between 1405 and 1449. That's a- Wow. Where's his diary?
Yeah, it was just... That's awesome. Yeah. That is diligence. But I guess if you have fuck all to do. Yeah. What else do you Writing in a diary? Yeah. I probably would have written in a diary back in the day.
all you have to do. And so the title of being one of the bourgeoisie actually came from a 1659 edition of the publication of this journal. But scholars today now believe this person was just probably a member of the clergy. But they did note multiple instances of the wolves. So the first time it's noted in the diary is July 1421. At that time, shortly after the summer of St. Martin, July 4th,
Darien (43:09.166)
Wolves were so hungry that they dug with their paws the body of people who were buried in villages and the fields. Everywhere they went, one found dead in the fields and the cities from great poverty had suffered from the war which had always grown from bad to worse. And this continued in the...
Later on that same month, you have another instance of the wolves were so hungry, they entered the good cities at night and caused much damage, often crushed the river sin and several others naked and to the cemeteries in the fields. As soon as the bodies had been buried, they came at night and devoured and ate them. We have one in August of 1423, where it notes that some wolves were caught and hung up by their hind legs after they were slain.
As a warning to other wolves? But then, 1438, at that time, the wolves came into Paris by the river and took the dogs and ate a child in the night at the Palace of Chateau, Palace of Chasse, behind the innocence. September the following year, at that time, especially as the king was in Paris, the wolves were so rabid to eat the flesh of men and women or children in the last week of September that they strangled and ate 14 people.
I guess?
Darien (44:29.294)
Yeah. It was a problem. But then if you look this up, you will get like the the wolf who led them was Korat, is what they called him. was a bobtail. So had a bobtail. And here's where we get that from a journal entry November 14th, 13 of 1439 on the Virgil of St. Martin, a terrible and horrible wolf was so hunted that it was said he alone had caused more of the pain mentioned above than the others.
that wolf was caught and had no tail and for that reason it was named Carante and he was spoken as much as a thief or a cruel captain. The last entry we have from this journal regarding the wolves is from December 1439. On the 16th of December the wolves came suddenly and strangled four housewives and the following day they panicked 17 around Paris of whom 11 died from their bites.
Shit, wolves were a problem. Wolves were a problem. I've said it quite a few times this episode, but there is a reason Big Bad Wolf was a thing.
We've got, yeah, the ton of folklore appearances, the boy who cried wolf, little red riding hood, the wolf and the seven young goats, three little pigs, Peter and the wolf. Like the idea of, I was wanting to know if this concept of the big bad wolf stemmed from Finry.
I don't think it stems from Fenrir. I just think it stems from that wolves were so fierce in Europe that they just spawned all of this. And even Fenrir might come from this specific feeling towards wolves.
Darien (46:05.228)
Yep, and that's what I found, like the note of folklorists tend to talk about. Nah, man, is just like wolves were a problem. And these stories were to tell children, don't. There are wolves in there.
Fuck with what?
Now a 19th century folklorist and cultural anthropologist, P. St. Ves and then another one, Edward Burnett Tyler, did equate the Little Red Riding Hood story kind of to the connection of Skull or Fenrir in Norse mythology swallowing the sun. The wolf swallows Red Riding Hood and then she emerges again whole. I don't know.
I think that's just to be a happy ending.
just mentioning it because of the episode, but they were looking at it in terms of solar myths and other naturally occurring cycles. And I do think that was probably more just like, hey kid, there's wolves in the woods, watch out. I don't know if that idea of connecting it to the wolf devouring the sun motif is necessarily where we're getting the folklore, but yeah.
Darien (47:13.134)
considering how DJ likes to tell us about the times that wolves siege Paris, this episode felt really appropriate for me to spend a bunch of time- Because you can find this collective of like, there was one where it talked about how a bunch of men, in order to solve the problem, killed some cows, dragged them through town so there was blood, luring the wolves down into the place in front of Notre Dame, and then stoned the wolves there. But I could not find-
researching this kind of thing.
Darien (47:42.888)
any first person accounts of that. Like the journal where it showed us, like, yeah, wolves were a goddamn problem. Here's that Bob tell wolf that they tell you about in the story. So I couldn't, I found a blog where some of that stuff was mentioned and then that story was there, but there was no citation of like where they are getting that from. Like news reports, documentations, like legal stuff or this journal where we get it. so,
Those were elements I was like, I just want to know. DJ tells us about the story. But like I said, I found the one where in the 1600s, the militia guy was the one who fought this wolf who had a name who was this beast. And that this is a thing. I think that main story became an amalgamation, which just demonstrates it.
And wolves were a problem. Honestly, I was just reading it because it was like a post. Yeah. I was just reading it. It might have been like wolves did this, wolves also did this, wolves also did this. And I read it as one coherent story. Right. And I'm like, holy shit, this one time wolves did all of this. You know, it's like, no, sometimes there was a pack of wolves that figured out guard posts. And then another time there was a pack of wolves that did this. And then another time a militia guard killed a wolf. Shit like that.
But yeah, that was the thing I really wanted. was like, show me the first person documentation.
I can't believe we have something like that. That's so fucking- That's really dope. 40 years this person documented their life.
Darien (49:03.726)
Yeah, their whole life and then throughout there was about a almost two decades where they had to keep noting so wolves attacked again
wolves showed up today. people died.
That's rough. There was, oh, there was one where it was called in the 1652, the year of terror, which might also be the thing where there was one. Just let me see the beast of Gatineus, which is like an area around Paris. Just this one wolf was a problem. And so this definitely felt like and I wanted.
Is the wolves a soysome?
Darien (49:49.336)
So I wanted to, I even dig some research into the big bad wolf motif, hoping I would be able to bring a lot more like folklore fairy tale scholarship of the ideas of this and the representation. But it really sincerely does boil, most people are pretty sure it's cause wolves were a problem. And that's why the big bad wolf is such in so many like folk tales because wolves were a.
Shout out to Puss in Boots Last Wish for having a really dope big bad wolf. As death just period. So good. Big fan of that.
Talk about
really cool. So if y'all haven't, on Patreon, we got a remith episode from a while back talking about Puss in Boots the Last Wish and
It's such a good movie. Just outright, it's such a good movie. Death? Being like the big bad wolf, not the Shrek big bad wolf. He's funny. But he's the wolf from Little Red Riding Hood specifically. This is the big bad.
Darien (50:38.789)
Dissecting.
Darien (50:45.838)
Who's f-
Darien (50:52.344)
This this is truly the big bad wolf and so using this fairy tale aesthetic to who's gonna be our Grim Reaper for puss in boots a cat well it should be a wolf
Yeah, and it's like, love the... Normally I just let things take their course, but I wanted your last life personally.
because he is insulted by the fact that like puss has wasted all of his other
Why do cats get nine lives? It's bullshit.
Yeah, he's been so careless with them. And the idea of the story in Puss is like, well, I my lives back because I'm afraid of dying. And the shift in that narrative being he's like, no, I'm going to protect this one I have because it is valuable. Super cool. he's like, well, of course, I'm the fearless Puss in Boots because if I die, I just get another chance. And what does it mean to be fearless when you don't, like, were you really brave if you were willing to throw him away just because you knew you'd get another shot?
DJ (51:38.828)
Yeah.
DJ (51:44.28)
Big fan of it.
Shout out to Terry Pratchett. There's a book called The Amazing Maurice. Yeah, Amazing Maurice and his rats. It's about this talking cat and these hyper-intelligent talking rats. And at the end of the book, cats is, there's a big accident. The cat dies and one of the intelligent rats die. And so the Grim Reaper shows up, Death shows up to collect one of the cat's lives. But before Death himself shows up, the Grim Squeaker shows up to collect the rat.
And when Maurice sees this happening, he bats him aside to try to protect his little rat friend. And death is like, Hey, why are you fucking around with my associate? He's like, so sorry, sir. So sorry, sir. And he's like, is this the last one? He's like, no, sir. I've been really careful. I've been really careful. This, this was just number five. This was life number five. I know it was a coast call on that last one, but I'm good. He's like, okay, so you're fine. You've still got like four more, but we're going to take your buddy and go. And he's like, no, no, you, should give him another chance. You're here to collect two lives, right? So what if you want mine?
You just took. That's.
He's like, well, that's above board. That's all the numbers. Yeah. And so I let the other... That's nothing to do with the wolf, but I wanted to share that because it was really cute. Yeah, it's... Yeah, Finryr is... We could call him the OG Big Bad Wolf, but for real, for real, doesn't seem like he deserved what he got. Guys. I Odin deserved what he got.
DJ (52:53.166)
It's a lot of fun.
DJ (53:07.094)
guys also had a very fun big bad wolf. Yeah. Guys, this really cute. I'm super excited for it.
I just
Darien (53:15.81)
So too, I really liked the first bad guys movie, so I'm into seeing, getting more from these characters. hope, I don't know, sequels can really go either way.
Pixar is typically pretty, not Pixar. Dreamworks. Dreamworks is typically pretty good about sequels. I haven't seen a Dreamworks sequel that I haven't liked. Megamind aside. Megamind, that's solely, I don't even think the main Dreamworks thing, think somebody bought the license to that. Some side company bought the license to do that shit, whatever.
Megamind is the outlier and will not be included.
DJ (53:54.968)
How to Train Your Dragon 2? Stellar.
How did you know dragon is like maybe my favorite trilogy of all time? So good.
It's so fucking good. Shrek 2 is a stellar sequel. Shrek the third, a little weak. Shrek Forever After is pretty strong. All things considered.
like, listen, turning around and giving us an AU in the fourth movie is always good. I'd say.
Push and Boots won. I never watched it. Push Last Wish. So So good.
Darien (54:24.902)
So good. Go listen to it. But yeah, Big Ben. And the Big Ben Wolf in the Shrek movie is also funny. it's just a comedy beat.
Yeah, he eats. It's the big bad wolf just from from Little Red Riding Hood and he's just there to take a nap.
aesthetic.
Darien (54:41.246)
He's wearing granny clothes, they're comfortable. He just wants to rest.
He's wearing a night gown or a night shirt.
Yeah? Is it a night shirt, not a nightgown? But it's long, it's all the way down.
It's a nice shirt.
Marshall's grandpa Olaf wore a knight shirt and he was a very wise man. Anyway, I'm gonna talk about Fenrir from Smite Mortals must rely on the wisdom of gods, but never forget they are fallible. They can be petty, churlish, and worst of all, wrong. What are the consequences for their mistakes? They should have slain the wolf beast Fenrir, but they chose instead to bind him. Despite the warnings and prophecies he would tear Odin apart at Ragnarok,
Darien (55:02.666)
yeah, please do!
DJ (55:22.114)
and to fowler the earth and sky. They did not end Loki's son. Now, terror roams free. It is unknown how, but Fenrir is unbound. Thrice they tried to bind him, each time convincing Fenrir that the chains were nothing more than a challenge for his strength, a test to see if he could shatter them. The first two god-forged fetters were easily broken beneath the beast's terrible power, but the third was a ribbon.
Dwarf maid and Fenrir grew suspicious of the gods intentions. As a show of faith, he demanded one of them place his hand in his mouth. And if the ribbon proved magical in nature, he would exact punishment. Brave if foolish, put his fist in Fenrir's maw as the ribbon was secured to the wolves leg. Fenrir strained and screamed, but could not break free. And in rage, he defoured Tyr's hand. For a time Fenrir was forgotten.
the dire prophecy just a memory, but they were all warned and the gods did nothing. Fenrir is hungry now, the first hunter, an alpha among sheep, but no flesh will satisfy his need. It is revenge he craves and now he is.
I can't say I blame him. Did you get Fenrir in Smite when Persephone rolled up and started Ragnarok?
No. Because she was starting Ragnarok with Hades as well. you saying? This was a good time to launch that character. I don't remember. didn't read lore. I didn't pay attention to it until way too late in the game. don't what else. Fenrir is an early god, so no. A lot of the early ones really are just kind of like, oh yeah, this is the rundown of their god. Now they're on the battlefield. And that's kind of what this was.
Darien (56:47.394)
Yeah.
Darien (56:55.502)
I know, I just wasn't sure if it said anywhere.
Darien (57:00.302)
from it.
Darien (57:10.156)
Yeah. it's great. like.
It's a lot of fun Fenrir is an assassin or was an assassin now just Because smite to Well, it's it's smite to doesn't tries to has tried to get away from that class-based system So it's like while he has like same similar and similar abilities It's just they want to again get away from that class-based system and not have it be like that He's still like a jungler, but he He has a leap he has
Yeah, just struck.
DJ (57:42.424)
like a brutalize where it's like a short jump that he like locks onto somebody and slashes them four times with his claws. He has a self buff that increases his power and his ult is he grows bigger and he can grab somebody in his mouth and run with them. And then his passive is he's got runes on his body where every time he does damage to an enemy, he gains a rune and at five, the next ability he uses is empowered.
No
Darien (58:11.182)
That's really cool. I like that. That's super neat. Yeah, I like Finner. And actually, now I find him to very tragic character. Kind of.
really fun.
DJ (58:22.298)
yeah, really realizing all this. Yeah. Now, keep in mind, this is like we have these feelings for what we have. There could be other stories where he was running a much.
true this is what we have like were there other poems or accounts where Fenrir was causing problem before that yeah and what it also maybe there's some sort of like cultural understanding of a wolf but he's also the son of Loki
He's also a wolf.
Yeah, Loki was a problem.
is a problem. apparently not yet. But what time? When does Baldur die? Like it's so hard to figure this.
DJ (59:00.034)
Timelines are Timelines are funky.
It's so weird. like, oh, his mother was a giant. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of your wives are also the children of giants too. So like, we really are playing Calvin ball with who's cool and who's not. Yeah. He's a little wolf. Yeah. But we kept the horse. Yeah. It's crazy. It's it's justice. It's a little
Sleep near.
DJ (59:26.624)
Norse mythology everybody.
I wonder if there's an element of like the understanding of like oh they tried to raise the wolf But they ultimately had to bind him if it is the whole well you keep where there are accounts of yeah You try to have that wolf didn't yet and that early. It was a good boy until he turned
turned.
Is that a thing like when we talked about Balder, when we talked about Frigg not getting the promise from Mistletoe because it is young and that being understood as the dynamic of a young man not being able to swear oath and to understanding in a contract but still being able to come up and get revenge later. Like is there something of them raising.
fin rear and not the other two that would have been understood culturally. saw something where someone was talking where a scholar was like, it's cause wolves will sometimes turn on their own family members. So obviously the Norse knew this and I'm like, that feels like not, I don't know. That feels like someone just saying something. It's weird.
DJ (01:00:19.958)
Who knows? don't know. I don't don't I don't don't I
really like family packs. So that probably isn't standard wolf practice. Maybe it does have.
Maybe they just saw wolves attacking other wolves like, they're attacking their family. It like, it probably was another pack.
Yeah, I don't know. That was the thing. I was like, yeah, I'm just thinking in my head how if they didn't bind Fenrir, but you need the fate to still pass, how do you do that? And it's like, I don't know. Maybe Odin becomes a dick. And at Ragnarok, Fenrir is the one that takes him down because Odin has become corrupt. I have, well, I'm just, you know, we're going to do a retake twist around. That could be fun. I haven't played that game in a while on the podcast. If you were going to do it, what would you do?
Who knows?
Darien (01:01:05.88)
But I really liked your take of Tyr giving up his hand to like this, what we are lying to you, what we have done to you was wrong, but we are gonna do it anyway. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so.
He's like the oath keeper. The oath keeper law-bringer guy. It's like, yeah, we are tricking you, so I will give up my hand for this.
Yeah, like it is, we are practicing deceit and I'm gonna pay for that to make it like above board again because I paid for that deceit. And now it's okay that we've done this because I did give you my hand and I like that element you brought to it. So thanks for that DJ. Okay, even though you tried to do my episode out of order. Even though you tried to do the episode out of order. Yes, and I feel like this was what it was all building towards and we just didn't know it. Like Fenrir didn't know what it was all.
Will this be problem? I just gotta bring it up. I just gotta bring that up.
DJ (01:01:50.754)
didn't know what was going on at all. Thank you guys so much for joining us.
DJ, what should our listeners do, you think?
Go to our Patreon, because Musemas is happening right now. Right now, as this episode is released. You just got another episode of Muse Miss. What episode is that again? Is that the 17th one?
yes, we actually haven't... yeah!
Yeah, is like honestly a really like faithful and wonderful retelling just a standard retelling of
Darien (01:02:19.458)
With a great Ebenezer Scrooge performance.
George C. Scott has done a wonderful job with this. He's the guy who performs with Scrooge. 1984. is its 40th anniversary today. So we have released it special just for you. At our patron, just for you at our Patreon for $5.
Yeah. And then you can listen to all of it.
Get all of them and the back and our backlog because guess what? We have just as many bonus episodes as we do real episodes, if not more, because we also have two more years of Muse Miss.
That's true, I don't number Musemas episodes the way I number Bunker 9 episodes. So there is... ...Musemas episodes before this year.
DJ (01:03:01.206)
And we talk about a ton with a-
Exactly. Crazy. Big fan of it. We hope to see you guys there and I want to see you there because... Musemas is really special to us. If you like this content, you'll love Mumemas. You've already listened to an episode.
But it is the most one of the most sincere times we ever get is talking about a Christmas Carol If you'd like to go check it out, yeah, it's a real fun one but until then we will be back in your ears on Tuesday, December 31st for One more episode in 2024 Wow this season has gone on for a while
Christmas Carol is so special.
DJ (01:03:42.2)
The season has been this whole year. Don't be like this.
And until next time, don't be like Zeus!
O'Connor. The Crystal Con Man. Nicholas Miller. Our music is Athens Festival by Martin Haim and our cover art is by Audrey Miller. You can find her on Instagram at Bombshell Nutshell Art.
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Darien (01:04:25.346)
Don't forget to check out all of our episodes and episode transcripts at musesofmythology.com.
Thanks for listening.