Story 99: Loki, A “Silly” Lil Guy (w/ TheDamMemePage)

“I cast fall into an open chasm!”

Robert (they/them) from TheDamMemePage is Finally!! One silly lil guy here to talk about another silly lil guy, Loki.*
*Citation needed.

Other topics include a group mourning session for Uncle Randolph, the lack of agreement regarding the meaning of Loki’s name, the lack of agreement regarding the role of Loki’s parents, which ancient Icelandic poet DJ would most like to have a beer with, the amount of horsepower in an eight-legged horse, the amount of evidence necessary to legally allow the Aesir to investigate Loki for Crimes, investigating Loki’s godliness, and DJ confessing that he’s never gonna play God of War.

Get ALL the Robert!
https://www.instagram.com/thedammemepage/


Spoilers for SMITE, Marvel Rivals, God of War, Supernatural, and a lot of Marvel Comics lore

Content Warning: This episode contains mentions of and conversations about death, violence against animals, torture, murder, and imprisonment.

Darien and Tim Play with Fate bonus episode available NOW on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/musesofmythology


About Us
Muses of Mythology was created and co-hosted by Darien and DJ Smartt.

Our music is Athens Festival by Martin Haene. Our cover art is by Audrey Miller. Find her on Instagram @bombshellnutshellart

Love the podcast? Support us on Patreon and get instant access to bloopers, outtakes, and bonus episodes! Patreon.com/musesofmythology

Find us @MusesOfMyth on Instagram. Find all of our episodes and episode transcripts at MusesOfMythology.com

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Darien (00:00.172)

Muses of Mythology is a spoiler-heavy podcast.

That's an understatement.

DJ (00:20.142)

Six I had that last year. It was not fun

Darien (00:41.058)

Welcome to Muse of Mythology, a podcast where we explore her ancient, misbecome modern pop culture through the lens of Rick Riordan's Magnus Chase and the gods of Asgard. This is Story 99, Loki. I'm your co-host and podcasting muse, Darian Smart. Joining me is my co-host and brother, DJ.

Hey, why was Loki in front of Thor? I'm Dejay the Muse, by the way. Or Loki after Thor. Like I just said, it feels like he's, it feels like Loki's more important than Thor. And I don't know if, I don't know if the general population would feel that way.

DJ (01:18.648)

But I feel like most people might feel it goes Loki, Thor, Odin. That's because of a good hero villain bias, sure, but.

Well, we can.

Darien (01:30.786)

I also feel like maybe most people would think it goes Thor then Loki because of a good Marvel character played by Tom Hiddleston bias.

I genuinely would disagree. Myself would disagree. That it would go out, like, if we're going on MCU.

It's a new month, so it's time for our monthly Patreon donation. Every month, we donate $1 for every patron we have over on Patreon to some organization working to create a net good in the world. This month, in response to the devastating wildfires in the LA community, we're following the lead of our guest for this episode, Robert Gamer, and donating to the LA Regional Food Bank. The LA Regional Food Bank works year round to mobilize resources to fight hunger in their community. Their efforts are needed now more than ever, as countless individuals have lost everything.

We currently have 11 patrons over on Patreon, so we'll be donating some additional money out of pocket to make that an even $20 donation. If you'd to learn more about the LA Regional Food Bank, you can check the link below in our show notes. Our hearts go out to all of the individuals in Southern California who are going through such a terrible time. If any of our listeners happen to be among these numbers, know that we are thinking of you. If there's anything we can do to help you in this time, please don't hesitate to reach out. Our community may be small, but if we can signal boost any way to help support you, we would love to do so.

Thank you so much to our patrons for helping make these donations possible. And now, back to the show.

DJ (02:54.734)

Welcome back to the episode everybody. Taryn, tell us about Loki.

Well, that's- that's out of order! I can't- yeah, let me just do the whole episode and then Athene will be like, God, has Robin from the damn meme page been here the whole time?

Hey Robert, what's good? So hey, I'm here to talk about Loki and it feels like this has been an episode waiting forever because Loki and time and Loki has nothing to do with time but it's been a long time since I was like, can I be on the Loki episode please?

It has been a long time since you asked to be on the Loki episode. And that was like literally last year at the start. And then we had to reshuffle the entire way we were approaching doing the Norse myths.

So you've been waiting a whole year. We appreciate your patience. So crazy. Are you guys ending the Norse mythology section? Section story 100 on Odin? Yeah.

Darien (03:55.278)

because we divided up Frey in Freyr and the Veneer. Like, they were all supposed to be one episode, and then that got broken up. so then it turned into episode 100 was supposed to be some sort of like self-indulgent bash. Now it's about Odin, and we're having special guests from standby line joining us. Which is also very good. And then we're going on hiatus for a chunk of time. But let's not think about that now. We're here with Robert. Why did you want to be here to talk about Loki?

Loki, I- Listen, I'm a silly little guy, you know I am. want to talk about the silly little guy, the- where it all begins, the mythology of the silly little guy.

I just think about Balder being dead and then being like, yeah, Loki, a silly little guy. Robert, the last time you were on the pod was on the Back to the Underworld episode, September, 2023.

You're

DJ (04:53.858)

God, really?

I could be, I mean, to be fair, we could count the episode 77 view from Mount Olympus episode where you gave us a nice little visit as a lot of folks did that would be still December 2023. So it's still been well over the year, a year since listeners have heard your voice on this feed. So thank you for coming back. We missed you. You are in fact a silly little guy. Friend, brother, friend, listeners, let me hear yours. As I say, I.

I'm.

you

Darien (05:24.138)

I no idea what this episode is gonna be, gang. Like, I don't know, man. I feel like I'm not done doing the research.

everything that Loki has, right?

It's just, the thing about Loki, I haven't, I'm sorry.

mythology kind of just is a part of every story in some in some kind of way yeah it's like he's he's like the trickster god person kind of person dude who's like hey what if I play a silly little prank hee-hee-haha and now people are mad and that starts a fight that like gives Thor his hammer or hey what if I do this silly hee-hee-haha prank and then Baldur dies or hey what if I do this little hee-hee-haha prank

And God, what's another Loki story? But that's the thing, right? Is that it seems like Loki is specifically never the main character. He's always the supporting character or the villain of somebody else's story. It's never it doesn't it just something about him specifically isn't. Main isn't isn't isn't solo.

DJ (06:33.794)

He's always a highlight of somebody else's.

Yeah, here's the thing, Loki's weird. Loki is Start that, and I think this is factual, and I have scholarly evidence to support this. I'm going to open it with a quote. I'm going open it with a quote.

Before we do that, Darian, hey Robert, what do you remember about Loki from Magnus Chase? I've lost control of the emphasis. jeez. God, what do I remember from Loki? He spends essentially the whole first book, not even the whole, like two times I think in the first book.

Invading Magnus's dreams being like hey, you're sucking at being a hero Lamau and then in the second book he keeps doing that but also inevitably gets freed due to The shenanigans I think his uncle frees him right Magnus's uncle freedom Because Magnus's uncle is like hey if I free you're gonna like bring my family back and then Loki is like yeah so about that death I cast I cast

I think like what fall into an open chasm is what happens to Uncle Rat?

Darien (07:43.008)

Yep, Loki cast Fall into an open chasm. It was super effective.

bad. I truly Randolph I love him to bits. I feel bad for that guy. He's a tragic character. That is a fella that I have pity for. Truly and unironically. I have pity for him. I really wish that he got better. But he he got manipulated by Loki and

Yeah.

Darien (08:03.905)

Yeah.

DJ (08:09.154)

And then Loki in Ship of the Dead, his entire plan is to sail his ship so he can like start the party that's known as Ragnarok. And the only reason he doesn't is because Magnus Chase rap battles with him. That's what the fighting is, right? Rap battle. And kicks his ass so hard he shrinks Loki and puts him into a jar. There you go.

be clear, Magnus loves and compliments his friends so hard that it shrinks Loki and he puts him in a walnut.

A walnut, yes there we go. Which one could argue is still insulting to Loki because he's like, I have all these people I love and who love me, what do you have? Nothing.

It's literally like the actual thing is like look you're still alone even your wife is gone Even she just straight up did the fading out

For like a thousand years to two to three to four thousand years. Like who knows how long your wife has stood next to you. She's gone, bro. She doesn't care about you anymore. You're alone. You imagine imagine it couldn't be me, dog. Check this out. Samira, she's got here. Fuckin.

Darien (09:07.704)

beyond.

Robert (09:13.934)

just.

you

Darien (09:18.027)

It's so-

DJ (09:28.168)

half born. This dude fought water horses. don't know how it couldn't. I don't know. What crazy. Out of all that, his thing for Alex is like, and then when Alex and I kiss, was the best thing ever. was outstanding dog. Best kiss ever fireworks in my mind, dog. was crazy. The fact that we kissed, I couldn't believe it. It was, it was amazing. I loved it. Every single second.

Dude,

DJ (09:58.809)

Do you have anything like that? Do you? What about you? She's gone. I bet. I bet even the first time you kissed your wife, there were no fireworks. I bet it was a political marriage, you fucker. Oh, my God.

She's gone!

Darien (10:17.238)

And this is exactly, I'm reading along, that's exactly what Magnus is wild!

How did Rick Riordan get this past the censors? And then I think the story just ends with him tied back up to the rock with the poison dripping on him, right?

Yep.

Okay. Congratulations, Loki. You had your moment. You threw it. I mean, I guess you'll get your moment again in the future because Ragnarok will always happen. You can prolong Ragnarok, but it'll eventually happen.

Honestly. Yeah. I mean, that's the first thing we learn about Loki is when we get into the first poem of the Poetic Edda and the the Vullspa and we have the Sybil talking about what's the jam, what she sees. Loki's mention is being freed in Ragnarok and everything falling to pieces at that point. Can I give my quote now?

DJ (11:13.23)

100 % I was about to ask you.

Okay. All right. So I think this quote I found was going to really encompass the vibe of this episode and it is from scholar Gabriel Turvel Petri. In 1964, they stated, more ink has been spilled on Loki than on any other figure in Norse myth. This in itself is enough to show how little scholars agree and how far we are from understanding him. So.

Let's start with the etymology of Loki's name. Because when you look up Loki, you're going to find a lot of places that say, yes, his name means not, or Tangle, or perhaps Cobweb. And I'm here to tell you, maybe, perhaps, mayhaps. In fact, there is no scholarly agreement on the interpretation of what Loki's name.

is supposed to mean or that. And there are also times in the Eddas where Loki is referred to as Loptjorn, which comes from the Norse word that means air. So if you thought, hey, I'll figure out what the Norse, the Old Norse folks thought about Loki through his name, no. No, you won't. Not here.

Good luck, Charlie.

Darien (12:40.076)

Now, you're the, okay, parents. Let's look at the parents, look at the origin. bet that's going to tell us a little bit about like what they thought about So Loki is the son of the Jotunn Farbati and the goddess Laufi. And here's a fun fact. You'd be like, wait, but isn't Loki, Loki Laufi's son? I thought that was like Thor Odin's son. Yeah. Here's a fun, weird thing about Loki.

He is like the only dude in in Norse mythology who is referred to with the reference to his mother. It's not usually the matriarchal line that we're getting that son or daughter of element for, or I guess sometimes daughter of, but. So that's interesting. Now, Luffy, goddess.

that with Blitzen.

cause Blitzen is Freya's son.

specifically he calls out the dark elves or dwarves choose the maternal line instead of the paternal line.

Darien (13:48.854)

Yeah, in this case it might be because the maternal line is little bit carrying a little bit more weight. Laffy, goddess, goddess of what? Well, maybe trees. Her name appears to be a feminized version of the word for leaf. So perhaps she's a tree goddess. But she isn't actually mentioned outside of being referenced as being Loki's mom. That's-

true.

Darien (14:11.714)

That's the only time we ever get a name for her. And in fact, the only place where she's stated to be the goddess, or a goddess, is in like, supplementary material for the Prose Edda. There's like, it's called... Nath... Nathurler. Sure.

And it's essentially a subsection where there's like a list of names and how they can be used in poetry. Cause again, Snorri did all of this because he hated French poetry. Very important, never forget. So there is one list that is like basically it goes, one must qualify these names for women. And it's followed by a list of several goddesses, including Sif Frig Indun

and then Laufey is at the end. So that's the only place where she's referenced her specific identity. Scholar John Lindau has noted that while it's probable that Laufey was a goddess and a member of the Ace here specifically, it hasn't been proven. Much like Loki's name meaning tangle.

So let's talk about Loki's dad, Farbazi, who his name, we actually do have like a pretty like solid consensus. That's the word I wanted to use earlier. Consensus on the name has been translated into dangerous striker, anger striker, or sudden striker.

golly, the road's getting bumpy. Consensus? Consensus? I don't know what that means. Anyway.

Darien (15:51.606)

Consensus!

Darien (15:58.67)

but also this dude is only ever mentioned in the fact that he's loki's dad she doesn't have a story he doesn't need details we never learned anything about it it's when loki's parents are mentioned that's when these two figures show up they are not active and present in any other way hope you didn't think you were gonna learn anything about loki from that

I that's one way to have I wasn't I wasn't expecting their Loki's parentage from this episode and honestly because I feel like I would have had it because Loki is such a prominent figure in almost to anything I feel like aside from Laufjissen I would have seen something else right because I mean we've seen that Thor is the son of Odin

her name. Frig. I was about to say Sif and like that's Thor's wife.

Frig.

Darien (16:51.448)

So his wife, but you know, had, there was a connection.

Yeah, but it's like, yeah, we know that Thor is the son of Odin and Frigg, but I haven't seen Loki being the son of like anybody specifically and anything more than, you know, like the MCU. But even the MCU is like, he's not actually Odin's son, but he might not actually be Odin's son.

No, and also they took a big ol' swing on, Laufey. She's like, yeah, Laufey's done. Must be.

An ice giant from Niflheim, right fellas? And he hates that. wrong! He hates that. Not Niflheim, isn't it?

Jotunheim.

DJ (17:38.914)

Jodan Heim there. they call it Jodan Heim and fucking yeah Cuz that is that is like niffle. We talked I know In the in the Heim episode whatever that was It should have been called anyway

Yes. It's Jottheim.

Darien (17:48.696)

We did extensively.

Darien (17:54.062)

So.

I adventure's in giant land. Hey, I'm not actually sure if Thor's mom is Frigg. I'm doing a real quick scan. Not seeing that as being explicit. His mom might be a giant.

His mom might be a giant. That is certainly Odin.

This is not Thor's episode. His dad is certainly Odin. Okay, so I want to start with Snorri. Because at least Snorri, like, tries to give us some concrete stuff to work with.

Love snored big fan of snored. I may shit on him sometimes, but I'm a big fan of snoring I think he's a wonderful fella And I'd love to have a beer with a guy I'd love to hear

Darien (18:36.962)

love to have an Icelandic beer with a guy?

No, I'd love to have a Miller Lite with this fella. A nice classic American beer with this guy. Why do I got to be the one who reaches out with my beer or with or like with his beer, right? I'll reach out with my beer. You know what I'm saying?

So chapter 33 of the Gilfennigining is Loki. Also counted among the Aesir is one whom some call slander of the gods, the source of deceit and the disgrace of all gods and men. Named Loki or Lopet, he is the son of the giant Fartbarte. His mother is named Lofi or Nal. also sometimes it's Nal, but like I heard nothing on that.

I'm sorry. So his like his shit is like source of deceit, god of like lies or like whatever the fuck you just said. And we still think that everything he said in Loki's. Quirrel is true. We know everything he fucking said there is true. What do you mean? The motherfucker is known as Lord of deceit. Like, what the fuck? Wild broken clock is right twice a day.

squirrel?

DJ (19:48.342)

It's not a broken clock! The motherfucker's missing his hands! Okay?

So Snorri does go out of the way to let us know that Loki is smokin' hot. Loki is pleasing, even beautiful to look at, but his nature is evil and he is undependable. More than others, he has the kind of wisdom known as cunning and is treacherous in all matters. He constantly places the gods in difficulties and often solves their problems with Gael. As we talked about in the Thor episode, there is a lot of myth involving Loki that we have already covered because these stories, there's literally

only two books and so they kind of overlap. But I wanted to real quick just talk about the stories about Loki that Snorri includes in the Gylf and Ingening in order. The first one is the story of the birth of Sleipnir, the eight-legged horse. have discussed that.

love how wanted to get a wall built around as guard and so loki was in charge of negotiations and he promised this stranger the sun the moon in freya but gave him an impossible deadline that this dude was definitely gonna meet and all the gods were like fix this so loki turns himself into a mare distracting the stallion delaying the

of the guy's ability, he just couldn't make up for lost time when it took to track down a stallion. And then Loki gives birth to this eight-legged horse that Odin's like, this is a great horse. Slepnir is noted as being best of all horses.

DJ (21:21.792)

He's got eight fucking legs!

Eight fucking like how much horsepower is that like at least right way?

At least one times one. That's the one.

Yes. 4 plus 4. 8 divided by 4 is 2.

Yes. You don't know how well more legs may multiply horsepower. You don't know if it's additive or multiplicative. There is so much math to think about. not just where. It could be 32. It could be. It could be 128.

Darien (21:53.346)

That's true.

Darien (22:04.23)

You don't know what no Owen Owen how much horsepower to slip near have

Because know horses don't even exceed one horsepower, which is weird.

So rude. Yeah. Yes. OK, so the next story is when Loki is just chilling with Thor and they're having adventures in Giant Land. And this is the one where he goes to Uthard Loki's plalace. And then they're like, well, if you're going to stay the night, you got to beat one of our contacts. And Loki's like, I'm great at eating. And they're like, OK, here's our buddy Loki.

And he loses.

It's fire loses because this other guy was just actually fired.

DJ (22:45.9)

Consumes everything. this is happening Thor's lifting a cat He tried his best. He could You know, think if Thor tried again, he could he could make sure that cat never gets up again Thor just needs like that training

Yep.

Darien (23:03.95)

Yes with this lifting the freight trains

Yeah, he needs that training montage and then he'll probably be able to lift up two paws.

two paws. Okay, so we've got a Loki shenanigan story, a buddy road trip story with Thor, and then the third and final time we get a Loki specific narrative in the GoFundMe. It's when he sets up HOD to kill Balder.

He's a great guy. What more da?

What all the murder? What murder? Yeah. You're just like, what a heel turn. Like, my god.

DJ (23:45.986)

Insane what a jackass bro. Yes, I'm not defending but also I'm like, you know, maybe Loki has a little bit of ADHD. He's like, here's the one thing that can hurt Balder. What don't you just want to see what happens like aren't you curious? Set it up. that's pushing it onto somebody else that's taking advantage of somebody else's

I'm not...

Darien (24:07.544)

It's blind, Baldur's blind right.

He knows exactly what's gonna happen when this mistletoe touches Balder But he gives it to his blind brother Who doesn't even know what material it is? Let alone he just wants to get on the fun and nobody else has offered him like hey Here's a ball of iron throw it at your brother. Nobody else is offering that so Loki comes. Okay, throw this to your brother. It's not gonna hurt him Well, it is gonna hurt him

Thank

DJ (24:39.818)

And in fact, it's going to kill it.

And then Loki goes on so far to disguise himself as an old woman and refuse to mourn Baldr so he can't come back to life.

Yeah, literally. It's...

Loki's jackass. This is a silly little guy.

Loki's a bit of a jackass.

Darien (25:01.144)

The GoFundMe ending ends with going into Loki's participation in Ragnarok, which we've covered extensively, so I'm gonna skip to the other book in the pro-

Wait, give it to us, Darian. Because I don't remember.

I mean, yeah, I mean. Kill. he and Heimdall kill each other.

Of course he breaks free, but who does he-

DJ (25:23.438)

I guess. Wonderful. Thank you so much.

You're welcome, TJ. I want to talk about the Skáldskapármál, which is the other book in the Prose Edda, and just kind of do a cat recap. that just like, are the stories of Loki in this book. And in this one, we have Loki rescuing the goddess Indu. No. Yeah. And Idunn? That one's better. Idunn. And she is actually the goddess of youth. When she gets snatched by the giants,

was here then.

Darien (25:56.588)

The gods start aging. They end up like, happened? Where is sh-

Okay, hold on a second I shouldn't have grays this is bullshit

Hold on, on, where is it? I think that's literally kind of what it literally says. Verbatim. Indon's disappearance badly affected the Aesir, and soon they began to grow old and gray.

Hey, I'm happy gravy hairs. This is bullshit. Something's happening.

They get around they ask her out and apparently Loki was the last one seen with her So then they get Loki and they threaten him with torture or death He grew frightened and said he would go into giant land and find in Dune if Freya would get lent him her Falcon shape And again, it's just she was last seen leaving Asgard with Loki. There's no evidence that he's the reason she got kidnapped

DJ (26:55.886)

Except for fact that she was, in fact, last seen.

was in fact blasting with Loki and now she's trapped in Giant Land.

legally enough evidence to investigate Loki.

Yeah. shit, hold on. I missed the beginning of the fucking story. Yeah, nope. Nope, Loki fucking set her up. Because some giant wanted the apple. So nope, my bad. He did set her up to get kidnapped. This is his fault.

You

DJ (27:24.81)

Dude, motherfucker. Yeah, there it is.

He borrows Frey's feather cloak, shapeshifts into a falcon. Don't know why he needed her feather cloak to shapeshift into a falcon when he has turned into like a horse and also a fish. Unlike other times, but whatever. Rescues Indune, carries her back. The giant that had her is pissed. He goes and chases Loki, but Loki manages to like do an aerial move so this dude crashes into the ground. The AC or kill this guy. That was Scotty's dad. She's pretty pissed about this.

kind of wants revenge. They're like, hey, but what if you get to marry one of the Aesir gods and we'll let you pick the one with the hottest feet. And that was Loki's idea.

Outstanding.

Another myth we have is Loki just decided to go into giant land for funsies. He got busted and the giant was like, I know you're a guy, fucking talk. And he's like, I'm not gonna talk. yes, locked him in a chest and starved him there for three months. And the next time the giant, Garad, opened the chest, Loki was way more talkative.

DJ (28:43.539)

shit, I forgot about you, buddy. What's what's up?

What's good? You gonna talk now? Apparently this giant just wants to fight Thor when Thor doesn't have his hammer or his belt of incredible strength. Loki sets this up so Thor goes into giant land without those two things. But fortunately, Thor stays with a giantist gird who is way chill and gives him a heads up about what's going on and loans him a different belt of strength and also some iron gloves and also her staff.

And then Thor goes and like fights that giant guy and wins. Yes, Robert?

No, I just like that story because it's I I swear the giant is like hey you were supposed to come here without your equipment He's like I didn't come here with my equipment. I came here with someone else's equipment. Let's go. Let's Hell yeah Fun loopholes gotta love him

On the last story in this collection is the one where Loki cuts off all of sifts hair as a prank and then Thor threatens to murder him So he gets all of the gods favorite toys made by a couple of group of dwarfs

DJ (29:53.208)

Good fan. Bro got bro got Gungnir and Mjolnir made in this like one swift move. Another item too. Don't get me wrong. I understand that. But those are the two that everybody knows.

Like, very much is Loki causes a problem. Loki is made to fix the problem. It's not just Snorri giving us this. Let's swing over to the poetic, Etta. All right. And talk a little bit about the Lay of Regine. Regan? Regine. And in this one, the gods Odin. OK, it's Odin, Hanir, and Loki are traveling together.

and Loki sees an otter and throws a rock at it and kills it and they're like, awesome! What a great looking otter. Let's skin it and turn it into a bag. And so they do. And then they continue on their way to visit this king. And they're like, hey man, look at this really great otter bag we made. And the king is like, holy shit, that's my son. Because. My boy.

Excuse me? Excuse me, sir? Explain that one to me.

you have yeah the the the one of the sons could shape-shift into an otter and he would go fishing like that

DJ (31:21.062)

Hey, you need a hobby. I guess the Otter son had like a white spot on it. So not Otter son. It's not the name of the characters from Gumball. Gumball. Otters. Watterson. Watterson. I'm like, that's not a familiar.

so sorry!

Darien (31:38.926)

Now once the family sees this they Then we and the narrative is being like in the prose section of this poem is like being told by like a family then we seized them and made them ransom their lives by filling the otter skin bag with gold and also covering the outside with red gold and So they sent Loki to go get the gold because it's kind of Loki's faults

moral of that story is do not skin otters in the Scandinavian region. Don't otters, otters are good little guys. they're wonderful little fellas. They do in fact have wonderful waterproof skin.

They hold hands when they sleep so they don't float away.

So Loki goes to the goddess Ran and gets her net so he can go back to the falls and catch that dwarf we've talked about a couple of times who has like a shit ton of gold. So he just catches this guy and is like, give me all your gold and that nice ring you've got on your hand.

The ring causes a lot of problems.

Darien (32:39.884)

the ring causes a lot of problems. here's like Loki rolls back.

available baggins gets a hands of it at some point it's you know it's Samwise carries Frodo I cried

Frodo gets his impulse. It's problem.

Darien (32:56.11)

That's so good. I cried.

So basically he's like, this treasure and this ring is gonna cause you no end of problems. Your entire line. And they don't believe them, they don't care, they take the gold, and then that ends up in just a whole other series of stories about the shit that happens to this family, cause of this cursed ass ring!

I don't know if they would put it that way DJ, but okay.

They really wouldn't fafni I love Fafnir I love that story. It's wonderful, but it also fucking sucks

Do y'all want to talk about a story that is super fun and kind of great? This exists in the poem Thrimm's Poem. And this is the one where Thor dresses in drag to get his hammer back.

DJ (34:20.747)

Hell yeah. Valkyrie bride.

He wakes up, Thor realizes his hammer is gone. And these were the very first words he spoke. Listen, Loki, to what I am saying, what no one knows, nowhere on earth nor in heaven, the god has been robbed of his hammer. So, like, Loki is the first person Thor tells that this has happened. And after he wakes up pissed, he says, then they go to Freya. And they're like, well, Thor is like, hey.

Can we borrow your feather shirt to see if I can find my hammer? And Frey's like, of course. We're best friends. And then Loki flies off, the feather shirt whistled, until he came to the outside the courts of the Aesir, and he came inside Giantland. And you see, like, this is, y'all know the story. The listeners know the story. Like, a giant storm y'all near. And Loki's like, OK.

Okay.

DJ (35:12.812)

Yeah.

DJ (35:17.326)

The giant will only give Mjolnir back if he marries Freya and Freya's like, have some fucking Lilian eyes. How's go, is Freya?

Yeah, they even suggest Yeah, they suggested her she gets so mad the whole hall of the ACR trembled the great necklace of brissings fell from her That's how fucking hey she was about this

We're not going to do that. And Thor's like, I'll do that.

Heimdall's like, hey, let's tie on Thor a bridal headdress. Let him wear the great necklace of the Brissings.

So here's the thing, I think that might call for the fact that Thor's a little bit of a twink.

Darien (36:00.236)

Well, no, because Thor literally says the AC will call me perverse if I let you a bridal headdress on me. Like, he's like, fuck that, I'm not gonna do that, I'm a macho manly man.

It's this, he feels that way. Don't get me wrong, he is. But he also, if covering the face, could pass as fucking Freya?

Okay, but Freya is also a goddess who gets half of the Fallen Warriors, has her own hall where they go, and is potentially the goddess of Valkyries herself.

goddess of fertility during this is in our episode do not forget that I don't

means is that Freya is fucking built. I don't know because listen to Heimdall says. He's like, Let Kis jangle by his side and women's clothing fall over his knees and on his breasts display jewels and will put a pointed headdress properly. Freya is buff. Thor is buff. So Thor is like, I'm not going to do that. And Loki's Loki, Laugh-a-Sons says, be quiet, Thor. Don't speak those words. The giants will be settling in Asgard unless you get your hammer back.

Darien (37:08.216)

So Loki convinces Thor this is what they gotta do. They dress up Thor. They put on Freya's pretty necklace. And then Loki is like, well, I'll go with you to be your maid. We too shall drive to giant land. So Loki just full on shapeshifts himself into being led bridesmaid for the...

Shout out to Lucky bro. up homie?

And Loki sells the Khan, because right, okay, clearly, like, the giant Thrim.

is super jazz, he's like hell yeah they're bringing me Freya, but he's a little bit like, I don't know, because Thor goes ahead and drinks three caskets of mead, and he's like, I've never seen any brides with a broader bite nor any girl drink so much mead. The very shrew maid sat before him. She found an answer to the giant's speech. Freya ate nothing for eight nights, so madly eager she was to come to giant land.

And then he bent under the headdress, he was keen to kiss her, and said he sprang right back along the hall. Why are Freya's eyes so terrifying? It seems to me fire is burning with them. The very shrewmaid sat before him. She found an answer to the giant's speech. Freya did not sleep for eight nights. So madly eager was she to come to Giantland. I don't know where this voice is coming from, I'm committed to it.

DJ (38:28.659)

It's definitely, you gotta commit to it,

And then when they bring out Mjolnir as the bride's gift and they put it on Freya's lap, Thor kills everybody.

I've never seen a lady kill everyone like that before.

killed anyone for eight days! She would have come to Giantland!

Yeah, that's effectively the whole excuse they give throughout the entire thing.

Darien (38:55.702)

What big eyes you have, grandmother!

She sat in her room for eight days eating salty.

So Odin's son got the hammer back. It's the prose line that ends the poem. That one's so fun! That's just such a fun, wacky nonsense. what? Funny! It's so funny. Like, why? Why is it so funny?

I you.

DJ (39:15.874)

Good, it's hygiene, bro.

DJ (39:24.118)

because it just is.

Now, shall we talk about something that is far less funny?

Okay, yep.

Loki's Coral. This is a poem we have talked about quite a few times as DJ talked about at the top, just having the biggest gripes with it being used as like, yeah, these are the facts of these characters. We should believe everything shitty Loki is saying about them. And I said that I was going to do a deep dive and try to figure out why this is. Bad news, gang. I couldn't.

Nice. But why not?

Darien (40:07.242)

Okay, so this version of the poetic ed I referenced this season is translated by Caroline Larrington and before each poem it has an introduction from her giving some context onto the piece.

Before Loki's quarrel, is this verse in the introduction that notes,

All I could find was that scholars are like, listen, all of these things Loki mentions, yeah, they might be not be attested anywhere else. Like, yeah, we have no other accounts where this is happening, but we have no reason to think the god of deceit and slander is lying.

little weird strange why wouldn't he be lying in order to make people mad

Yeah.

Darien (41:10.862)

Yeah, but Larrington goes on a little bit and talks about how the poem might be like a really early piece. The parah could have been, you know, believes in the divinity's Hebrew leskiz. A little comedy cannot hurt the divinity's whose cult is secure. Or it actually might be a lot later. In which case, it may be a mockery directed by a Christian poet at the heathen divinity's whose immorality contrasts with the stern morality of the new religion.

No, not nice.

Not nice. Opposite of nice. And I did actually find that super interesting because if it is the latter, if it was a Christian poet who was specifically writing these, like, and meant everything, and that would be the reason why everything that Loki throws at them is meant to be interpreted as true, because it is meant to specifically demonstrate that all these so-called great, like, know, heathen deities are terrible and immoral and awful and not like my capital G God.

Which would put it a lot more in line with that poem I talk about where Rick Riordan got his version of Freya from. I'm not gonna yell about that tonight, but imagine that I did.

Yes, it's a little weird.

Darien (42:26.33)

So yeah, that's the thing. I promise I would find more. And I simply can't. Because it seems like it just depends. Like we don't know if it's supposed to be a comedy, if it's supposed to be a dunk. It really changes the nature. Because if it's a Christian poet, then we can assume that like the Norse people, this wasn't really a foundational piece for what would have been reflective, excuse me, of like

the beliefs of the Nordic people of the time. And then all those things that Loki says, like his really main comeback to all of the goddesses is, you sleep around and also incest is like his big thing or there were the gods are like, ha ha, you're a coward. So for the meat and potatoes of this one, I want to dig into give an overview of what this poem actually is. We've talked about it. It's the

Back and forth it's the flighting, it's Loki just destroying any relationship he had with any of these other characters. Every bridge.

He's every bridge. is becoming an island on his own.

starting from the prose introduction that describes how the Aesir are all having a big party with Gmir, who just was made, they gotta go get that cauldron, so he's gonna make a lot of mead. So everyone shows up, including Loki. And then Loki gets jealous that the Aesir are praising the excellent servants, so he kills one of them.

Darien (44:05.318)

And the AC are pretty pissed about this so they chase him into the woods! And so then in- so that's the prose introduction and then we get into the poem and the poem opens with Loki apparently coming back and being like, let me into the party. But the actual poetic verses kind of indicate that he's gatecrashing and like was never invited and this is his first appearance. So there's an interesting disconnect that we're not sure why, but yeah. So he again insults-

Okay.

Darien (44:34.9)

everybody the reason he's let into the party is like he makes the guy standing at the door take it up with Odin and Broggy's like yeah you weren't invited but he points out Loki said do you remember Odin when in bygone days we blended our blood together you said you'd never in buy beer unless it were brought to both of us hey remember when we used to be tight and so then Odin says

So.

Darien (44:59.342)

Get up then, Vidar, and let the wolf's father sit down and feast, lest Loki speak words of blame to us in Aegir's hall. So he makes his son, Vidar, get up, Loki gets to sit down, hey, there's a big ol' drink, and then, yeah, does just... start shitting on everybody.

Odin's like, yeah, you're right. You're my homie. So like, you're welcome at my table. And Loki's like, well, fuck you. Fuck your kids. Fuck your sister. I fucked your sister.

Yeah, basically. Okay, so specific, it is interesting. He does not insult Odin. He just says, man, are you really not gonna let me in? But then he insults Broggy by saying he's a coward and a bad fighter. He insults Idun by saying she slept with a man who killed her brother. He insults Gifyeon by saying that he is a coward.

no, is a goddess, so that she slept with someone, that she was loose. then he insults Odin over here by calling him a coward and a pervert. He insults Frigg by saying that she slept around. Also, this is where he takes responsibility for Baldr's death. Frigg says, you know that if I had here in Aguirre's hall a boy like my son Baldr, you wouldn't get away from the Aesir's sons. They'd be furious fighting against you. Loki said,

Frigg, you want- no, I'm kidding. Frigg, you want me to say more about my wicked deeds? For I brought it about that you will never again see Balder ride to these halls. It's like, what an asshole. Freya chimes in, he accuses her of sleeping with her brother. Njord chimes in, he accuses her him of being a coward and also sleeping with his sister.

DJ (46:32.684)

Wow,

Darien (46:46.796)

Tear chimes in, he accuses them being a coward. Freer is a cow- That's- This is it! This is all he does, the whole time. He accuses them of being a cow- Men are cowards, women are sluts.

The reason, I guess now that I know.

how he specifically called out himself killing Balder or bringing about Balder's death. I guess I kind of understand why scholars are saying that maybe we'll take what Loki here is saying as truth because he then says, yeah, I killed Balder and we know that for a fact, yeah, he did fucking kill Balder. Right? So it's like here he's saying he did kill Balder and specifically in that fashion specifically instead of it being like he's in

Killball

DJ (47:34.576)

Consulting somebody and then us taking his insults truth. He's specifically saying to Frig or Frig brought up Balder first He's like, I'm the reason Balders not here. I Guess maybe we can start to think like you like

Yeah.

Darien (47:49.87)

He's like spilling everyone's secrets. Yeah

But it's also still even his Even his own, exactly.

Yeah. He tells Tear that he's like, your wife had a son by me.

But it's like... Everybody, bro?

Yeah, yeah, also when he gets to Frey, he talks about how he only got the the giantess Frey loves by giving away his sword. But when Moseful's sons ride over Mirkwood, you don't know then, Wretch, how you'll fight. is true. I guess there are certain comments that he has that are like, know, legit,

DJ (48:31.694)

So it's like maybe if we understood everything about normal psychology, maybe. So I can understand why scholars are arguing this point. Do I think we should take everything? No. It's hard to say, especially now. I would argue no, we shouldn't take everything. But at the very least what we do see and what we do see, yeah, that is truthful.

He continues on, when Scotty tells him, you know, first and foremost, you were at the killing when you seized Thazi. From my sanctuaries and meadows, cold counsel shall always come to you. Loki said, gentler in speech you were to Laufey's son when you invited me to your bed, who must mention such things when we reckon upon our shameful deeds? And I want to mention that because

That's gonna come back later. But as we talked about in the Thor episode, eventually Thor arrives and just threatens to literally whack Loki's head off of his shoulders until he finally skips out. But the Aesir have had enough. This was it.

Okay, you're in for a threat it was like I don't want to say anything to Thor because he will hit me bye

Well, he does. He goes back and forth with Thor like several times. What does he say to Thor? Let me find it specifically. He calls him a coward. He says you were cowarding, you're not really a hero. You never had any food when you travel. You're not. Yeah. He also dunks on Thor before finally leaving.

DJ (50:18.868)

got a three strike system respect I respect

After that Loki hid himself in the waterfall of Frogmere in the shape of a salmon. There the Aesir caught him. And I am gonna swing over to Snorri.

because he gives a very excellent elaboration on this next part here. So it's interesting. So the way Snorri sort organizes this is that this part, it's chapter 50 of the Gil-Funding, and the Loki is caught and the Aesir take their vengeance, is right after what has happened to Baldr. And it talks about how they find him in the falls, they catch him, because he was a salmon.

and then... they...

Darien (51:10.678)

Loki was now captured and with no thought of mercy he was taken to a cave. They, the Aesir, took three flat stones and setting them on their edges broke a hole in each of them. Then they caught Loki's sons, Vali and Nari, or Narfi. The Aesir changed Vali into a wolf and he ripped apart his brother Narfi. Next, the Aesir took his guts and with them bound Loki to the top three of the stones, one under his shoulders, a second under his loans, and a third under his knees. The fetters became iron.

Then Scotty took a poisonous snake and fastened it above Loki so that its poison drips on his face. But Sig, his wife, placed herself beside him where she holds a bowl to catch drops of venom. When the bowl is full, she leaves to pour out the poison, and at that moment, poison drops on Loki's face. He convulses so violently that the earth shakes. It is what is known as an earthquake. He will lie bound there until Ragnarok.

Darien (52:02.296)

So like they all got together and did this insane vengeance.

It is truly crazy. I cannot believe that they chose to... Bound this dude by his br- by his son's intestines?

By having one turning one son into a wolf to kill the other and then using the dead ones guts to bind him up And then they just turn into iron

Crazy, crazy, nuts. I don't understand that.

No, it's a lot, but it's like the ACR said to all do this as a group unit. The only one who is saying to have specifically contributed something of their own is Scotty, who you will recall is the one that Loki said hooked up with him. She was not fucking pleased about that accusation.

DJ (52:53.742)

Christ!

Like, yeah, take these sweet, soft, like, gentle thoughts, motherfucker.

You

Don't fuck around with Scotty. She had an amicable divorce. Don't try.

She's got called. I got a fucking ice wolf, bro. You don't want to fuck with.

Darien (53:12.396)

don't wanna fuck with that. Hey, is Loki a god?

Good question. Technically, I guess.

How would you define a god?

I would define a god in such a way that even giants can't. It really is just a person who has a large amount of power that is also immortal but not invincible.

Really?

Darien (53:43.636)

Hmm, Robert.

That's a god. God, how would I find a god? I don't know. I kinda like how Percy Jackson books do it, where they're like, you know, you can be a god in power and strength and immortality or whatever, but as long as you are remembered, that's where your true godliness is.

Darien (54:07.688)

So Snorri says, and you may recall when I introduced it, he notes that Loki is among the Aesir, which would suggest to us, okay, he's a god.

But that also doesn't technically mean he is an Acer, he's just with them.

is a safe what's what's the exact verbiage also counted among the ACR because this goes after a long like all these chapters are where we got like Bragi Heimdall, Hod, Vidar

person who is also an A-S-I-E-R. Yes. That's what that means.

And we know the Aesir are this class of gods. So that would suggest that, Loki's god. But here's something interesting I found. Scholar Margaret Clune Ross talked about in her work, she's talked about the social order of the Old Norse mythological world.

DJ (54:46.944)

issue.

Darien (55:02.094)

And the, for lack of a better term, what I referred to as the marriage and mating structure of this world. And we talked about how the Norse didn't do incest. In fact, have created like other families. So you don't have siblings or aunts and nephews marrying each other, right? That's not a thing. something I didn't clock was actually there are pretty rigid rules as to who gets to hook up with who.

The gods of the Aesir have wives of the Veneer goddesses or have children with giantesses. The Veneer can have, Veneer goddesses can have husbands who are Aesir or the gods can hook up with giantesses. But the Aesir goddesses only have partners within the Aesir. They don't pair up with giants.

The fact that saving a goddess from the lecherous advances of a giant is a pretty big deal, and quite a few of these myths would demonstrate. And the veneer, if the goddess doesn't marry an Aesir god, you might see one of the gods paired up with a giant, like Norn is paired up with Scotty. Loki breaks this rule. Does anyone remember who his parents are?

Krafi which is a I guess a goddess at this point. Mm-hmm. And then I have no idea who his father is a giant

But do remember what his father is? He's a giant. He is a Jotun. Scholar Stephanie Von Schreinbin points out that Loki is a product of quote, a taboo liaison between a giant and a goddess. And that the children he has with the goddess Angborah are said to be even more monstrous than he is. Yikes.

Darien (57:00.67)

So when I said that you couldn't learn anything about Loki from his parents, that was a lie. I was lying to you. You actually can't. You can learn that this character is meant to be viewed as fundamentally troubling from the jump.

Yeah, literally.

Von Scherbain also goes so far, has this, they wrote this great article, The Function of Loki in Snorri Sorrelsen's Etta. I think this passage kind of brought to light something very interesting. In the exedent written sources, Loki appears neither as a functional deity, nor was there any cult surrounding the figure. Proof of the latter point is evidenced by the absence of place names that can be traced to Loki in Scandinavia.

So we've talked a lot about all the places that were named after Thor, all the places that were named after Frey, places that were... Loki doesn't have a single one of those. So I ask if he wasn't worshipped, was he a god?

He was... What is it? In terms of like North Solidy Shore, yeah. Sure, I don't think you need to have... Counting as a god is a little different. Yeah.

Darien (58:22.178)

But every other god is serving as a function of some sort of element of humanity or social order that they are directly anchored to.

are a form of humanity and social order. That's a wild thing to say. What do you want me to say? Yeah, I understand. People fucking lie. People deceit. People have done for thousands of years.

So that's the- I mean, yes. There is no answer. To be clear, there's no answer. There's a lot of back and forth on this. Like, you could say, like, well, Snorri calls him an Aesir, so totally. It's like, well, his mom was a goddess, but was his mom a goddess? Who knows? Like, I- to be- what I said earlier, there's no answer. But I found this fascinating, because how many places will just be like, look, he is the god of mischief. And it's like-

Darien (59:15.16)

He was definitely mischievous. But was he the god of mischief? In a godly way? The same way like Hermes is kind of mischievous and also a god? Who's to say? Not me. And not Jacob fucking Grimm.

Did the Norse specifically refer to Thor as like the god of thunder?

You know, I was trying to... Let's see what Snorri said about Thor.

So it's like he could just very well be a god, because that's like what the Aesir are, right? Right. So it's just like, well, Loki's an Aesir and we view the Aesir as gods. Yeah. So they are gods. But in terms of Norse mythology, they could just be viewed as the Aesir over gods.

Sure. You really swiped my transition to Jacob Grimm off the table there, though.

DJ (01:00:17.72)

terribly sorry about that tell us about jacob grim why do you seem to not like it

For this episode, I don't. So, this has all been building to me talking about, damn, people really don't get Loki, and have tried to guess a lot of different things that Loki could be about. Hey, real quick, either of you have any connection in your head to Loki and fire? Nope, doesn't feel like a thing? Yeah.

None whatsoever.

Darien (01:00:47.722)

I realized that I was like wait, I have this thing in my head that Loki is connected to fire Why do I have this thing in my head? No, no, it's not in the brothers in 1950 it whoa those were not the right numbers at all in 1835 Jacob Grimm. Yes that one proposed a theory that Loki was a god of fire Why you may ask where would he get this

Brothers Grimm's movie.

Darien (01:01:17.558)

Well, this whole episode I've actually been building to talking about the whole ass fucking side quest I had to go on to learn why Jacob Grimm proposed that Loki was the God of Fire. Because you know a thing the internet loves to do? Just repeat a statement everywhere, but not link to the original source or expand upon it so you know everyone's just copying what they read on Wikipedia.

Nice. Hell yeah. Love to see it.

We've talked about Grim a lot this season. He had a lot of theories and like mythological ideas about the Norse gods. And some of them are like really interesting. Like this is an interesting theory. This one caught me up because I was like, why would he think that? Like nothing in the myths have related Loki to fire. And in fact, the one time Loki is connected to fire is when he is losing a competition against fire itself. Some folks, when I was trying to dig and they're like, Jacob Grim is connected to fire. This perhaps is because of the

It's Napton stone, which is a really cool hearthstone that appears to depict Loki with his mouth shut. there's not, we don't know for sure who this is. It does show a guy with a really great mustache and like weird lines across his mouth. And maybe those are just really stylized teeth. Maybe it's Loki after that dwarf sewed his mouth shut for being a dickhead. But the thing about this stone is that it was discovered in 1950.

I listened 100 years ago.

Darien (01:02:42.924)

Yeah, so I don't think Jacob Grimm, and it's the one, it's not like a lot of hearthstones were around that had like the same depiction on it. So I don't think it was this one. And other ones, other sources would be like, yes, it was him drawing connections between Loki and Logi at Uhtar Loki's party. And I was like, but why would he do that? That doesn't make any sense. These two figures are clearly different. What are you talking about?

why you all just repeating the same thing and up so anyway i want to thank stephanie vance through being again strenu being again because in her article i read she also mentioned this but actually elaborates on what he was talking about and sites the source where it comes from so this all comes from grims douche mythology which is just his mythological writing text right to be like emily wilson's

Not Emily Walsons. my god, what is her name?

It's Emily Wilson.

No, Emily Wilson is the translator of the Odyssey. She's not the one who I meant to reference right now. uh... Edith Hamilton's mythology. There you go. That's who I wanted. Grimm drew this conclusion because Loki's name sorta sounds like the German word lochi, which means raging flames.

DJ (01:04:12.11)

Okay. And that's why he thought Loki was the God of Fire.

So he just did bad etymology.

You love to see it and by that I mean you don't love to see it.

And it seems like this idea connecting Loki and fire kind of really got cemented in like pop culture zeitgeist for a while because of Richard Wagner's The Ring, not that one, the German language epic music drama, which is like a four part cycle of these operas, which we have talked about. In this, he has the demigod, Loki, put fire around the Valkyrie Brunhilde. And we can probably like the general existence is

Wagner was probably getting stuff from Grimm while he was like putting his pieces together from mythology. So that's probably where Wagner got his idea. Wagner got his idea of Loki and fire. And then just combined Loki and then Loki into this. Now to Grimm's credit, it's not the most wild theory about Loki from the last 200 years. Here's some more.

Darien (01:05:22.414)

In 1889, Sophus Bogg said that Loki was just a variant of Lucifer. But apparently this guy just really, really wanted to find a basis for Christianity in all of Norse mythology, so...

Okay, you know, I get it. The god of lies is Lucifer.

Seems like low-hanging fruit, but sure. 1956, Volkström said that Loki was just a hypostasis, essentially just like another version of, or like a flip side of the coin to Odin. Kind of like, you know, in Christianity, the Holy Trinity of like, you know, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit are all separate but one. That was kind of what he was suggesting for Loki and Odin.

In 1959, John DeVarious said that Loki is just a typical example of a trickster figure. I don't know if typical is how I describe Loki, but okay, John.

Maybe they had other stories of trickster figures. So he's like, yeah, Loki.

Darien (01:06:28.046)

In 1961, scholar Anna Briga Roth said that Loki was originally a spider.

Okay.

that I didn't feel the need to dig deep onto that one. just was like, fine. Finally, I'd like to talk about Anne Holtzmark, who in 1962 concluded that no conclusion could be made about Loki.

Yeah, because we go from trickster figure to spider.

to tie what I have for this episode into a neat little bow. No one can agree on anything. We don't know anything about Loki. Here's some fun stories. What do they mean? Fuck off. could listen. There are so many articles. You could just go like journal articles with scholars talking about this. Go nuts gang that I would recommend starting with Stephanie Van Steuben's one.

Darien (01:07:24.0)

It's very good. I only took a couple pieces from it because if I was, I, she had so much going on there that I was like, I can't just recite this woman's whole piece. Go read it. But also I was like, it's just too much for this episode. I can't, I can't with this episode. But she had a lot of very interesting ways that Snorri is interpreting Loki. Cause also remember how we like know that Loki killed Baldr, but that story comes from Snorri. So even then.

Maybe he wrote that story just to try to figure out what Loki was talking about. don't have that mentioned anywhere else. Nope. So it's hard to say. DJ, tell us about Loki and Smite.

Villain. It's a word used to describe those that break the rules, that take what they want and care nothing for those hurt along the way. Loki, the trickster god, would say villainy is nothing more than a point of view. The point of view of fools too mindless to seize opportunity. Of course, with Loki now on the loose, the implications are dire.

The end of times may be at hand. The final battle, Ragnarok, possibly on the horizon, for it was foretold that Loki would break free of his imprison and herald the horrific final battle that would leave the gods slain, the heavens sundered, and the world in ashes. None are more eager for that time of chaos than Loki.

Before his confinement, Loki's malicious mischief managed to affect every god in ways both beneficial and terrible. Yet Loki's most heinous act was in the death of the god of light, Baldr. Baldr's prophetic dream showcased his own death. Fearful for her son, Freig forced all objects in the world to swear never to harm him. All save Mistletoe.

DJ (01:09:33.87)

cruelly amused Loki forged a spear from the plant and provided it to Baldr's brother, Holder. The gods had a new favorite game, hurling objects at Baldr and laughing as they harmlessly ricocheted. Holder threw the spear, but to everyone's horror, Baldr was impaled.

Hel agreed to release Balder from the underworld if all creatures in the world mourned the God of Light. And all did save one crone who refused. So Balder died.

When it was discovered the crone was Loki in disguise, the Beers gods bound him in entrails and hung a venomous serpent overhead. Loki's wife Sigyn collected the dripping venom in a bowl. But when she was forced to empty it, Loki was struck causing such anguish, his thrashing would shake the world. But now Loki is free and already wreaking havoc. If the prophetic

Like, vulva?

VOSPA.

DJ (01:10:44.162)

Well, Smite, Hi-Rez, Titan Forge is here saying VULPA. That's That's the prophetic... It's premeditated typo. Yeah, if the prophetic VULPA are correct, and they always are, then the end of all things has finally come.

Okay, Volspa is the name of the poem. So let me see what the... because I don't remember what the... because the Volspa is referring to the speaker of the poem who is the seer.

Yeah.

no, it is, it's vulva.

Well, there you go, fellas.

Darien (01:11:30.346)

It's V.O. with a little umlaut. L.V.A.

Loki has had a couple of we works in his time. I actually would recommend you guys check out his search of Loki Smite original before you look up Loki Smite new and you will understand that the new Loki was in fact inspired by MCU.

Okay, yep, yep, I see dude in red, lots of scars on his face. Yep, that's an MCU inspiration right there. How do you feel about that, DJ?

That's what I'm saying.

DJ (01:12:12.982)

You know, actually I like Loki's newer design. just, I do like the practice when, high res Titan Forge does it nowadays where they would do like, what is it like classic version of the skin? Like new war has a new war and new war classic where like before they changed what like the standard new skin looks like.

Well, there's a there's an old one. There's an old version of it, right? So I would I would like to have that skin. But I do like standard Loki more than like old Loki.

Interesting. Okay. Do you play Loki very often?

Not anymore because they changed what this kit does. Specifically in Smite 2. In Smite 2 it's just not as fun.

Hey Robert, is Loki and Marvel rivals?

DJ (01:13:14.326)

Yes, he is. And he's one of those weird pain in the asses because he's designated as a support or I'm sorry, a strategist as Marvel Rifles likes to say, which means he's supposed to be a healer. And like a lot of his kit is healing, but also a lot of his kid is just cloning himself and the clones can also do damage and heal. yeah. His main schtick is his big alt is he copies. He turns into another character on either team.

can use their old, can use their moves for like a limited amount of time. Shout out to my The Morgan fans, am I right fellas?

In Marvel Rivals?

No, in Smite. And then also the other thing that I really like, there's two other Loki things in pop culture that I like. Well, like is a strong word for one of them. One is the whole mask and son of mask thing, because the mask, at least in the movie, is allegedly the mask of Loki. True, that is right. Yeah.

It does say that it's in, yeah, even in the, yeah, the first movie just casually throws that out.

DJ (01:14:22.274)

big fan of Yeah, and the second movie has Loki and Shaw trying to get his mask back. think says mask of Loki. And then my second favorite because I just finished playing God of War was Arthas.

Yeah. I had, my buddy Dalton was like also. We knew that, we?

Yeah.

DJ (01:14:45.804)

I didn't know that. Fuck. I knew that. Me personally, I did not know that.

I don't think it's come up.

I could have sworn this was something that was said on the podcast already, I'm so sorry. No, yeah, I've just, I've just had at this point, it's just not a game I'm gonna play. And it kinda sucks, don't get me wrong.

I know it's fine, he's not gonna play that game.

Darien (01:15:07.118)

I hope someone who's binging the podcast one day gets to the episodes as we're starting to get starting to do Norse mythology and Gigi's like I'm so excited to play all the games that are about Norse mythology God of War and then we get to these most recent one where he's just like I'm not gonna play God of War y'all I don't want to that game

I've tried a couple of times and I've played it. I've felt its combat. just, it's not good. I don't...

Loki. Robert, tell us about Loki and God of War. You say he's Atreus?

Yeah, so that's like the big plot twist of God of War because throughout part of the game this asshole that doesn't take damage and can't feel anything keeps taunting and like hurting fucking God, what's his fucking name? Why can't I remember? The literal main character.

Kratos. The titular God of War. Kratos. Where it keeps bothering Kratos. then at some point. It's been said in game dialogue. This isn't fan theory when I'm asking. no. It's been said in game dialogue that Atreus is Loki. And the reason we get to find out is because during one of these confrontations between Kratos and Balder, who is, as we were finding out, this asshole who can't feel anything, can't get hurt by anything, are Atreus.

Darien (01:16:03.182)

There we

DJ (01:16:31.022)

lunges at him to protect Kratos and accidentally stabs him with... Mistletoe. So this is... No, no, no, no. So this is why I'm asking that specific question I literally just asked. It's because it's like... Not my blood granted, sure, but that's... I don't know if I would consider that to be the same as Loki giving Hodor the spear.

Hey, yeah, my blood.

Darien (01:16:56.578)

No, he is. No, he is. He is meant to be Loki.

People in Ragnarok

shapeships into a wolf

I don't really think I think the only person who's not in God of Ragnarok I Think the only person who still calls him Arthreus is probably Freya and that's really it Everyone else it's a long story and everyone else either calls him Loki to his face Yeah, no and then Kratos like

Yeah.

DJ (01:17:35.147)

Okay.

Yeah, and they're like he's that is in in game. He is Loki

Okay, it's canon. That's like the big stick.

Alright, I guess it's my turn. Surprising no one. I'm gonna talk about Supernatural.

OK.

Darien (01:17:52.92)

So, okay, here's the thing. I only watch 99 episodes of Supernatural.

Stay and do not feel interested in the musical episode.

Yes, well no, because episode 99 pissed me off so much I didn't come back. So what I'm about to share, I recognize, was later retconned in later seasons and actually makes it way less interesting, but whatever. So, you have a trickster figure show up in an early season.

you

Darien (01:18:24.01)

and is just Trickster deity causing mischief. Just a generic monster. They kill it, whatever. He comes back again and they're like, that's weird. He's like weirdly powerful. What's up with that? It turns out it's the archangel Gabriel. He's just been lying low for a while. Just took on the mantle of the Trickster, because things were family drama was a bit much. And then later on, when all the pagan gods get together and be like, what are we going to do about this Christian book of revelation shit that are going up?

Gabriel rolls up and everyone's calling him Loki. Cause in order to like really don the thing, he just was running around with the Norse gods and he has Loki. And then they retcon that and later on they reveal that there actually was a Loki who was the one that was like imprisoned and bound that Gabriel freed. And then that's how he took over the game. I don't know. It's season 13. I didn't watch that.

you

DJ (01:19:17.302)

Cringe.

Darien (01:19:22.24)

Every interesting thing that Supernatural ever did, they ultimately undid with something that's less interesting.

Wasn't it supposed to be like five seasons long?

Yeah, the original show and her left after five seasons. That's the story I want to tell. Listen, I'm not mad that everyone who worked on the show got jobs for like 13 seasons. That's hard to do in television. Like I'm happy.

But also your story ran

Yeah, this all came back in retconned in season 13, the last one.

DJ (01:19:55.318)

I would give the same criticisms to How I Met Your Mother if like you met the mother in season five, but it ran out for four more seasons. get me wrong. Those last four seasons are wonderful. I love seasons six through nine. I think they're great. But also if I met the mother in season five, like your shit ran, bro.

yeah i don't think moving on from that i don't think that comparison works t but i understand what you're going for okay so now i'm talk about loki for marvel that's what i actually want to talk about that's what we all know of course listen you all know i'm not gonna tell you about loki from the marvel cinematic universe you all know also i have a watch season two of loki so i'll tell you about my favorite loki in the comics and all i'm gonna say is if you want to meet my favorite loki in the comics

Yeah, we're gonna run to it. I feel bad.

Darien (01:20:44.654)

Loki, agent of Asgard. It was like a 15 issue run. It's really fun. It does really cool stuff. This is where God of stories or goddess of stories Loki comes from, who's my favorite version of Loki. It's super good. And this, the, the premise of this one is like Loki is like trying to like be the hero and like work for Asgard and doing the things that only Loki can do for Asgard, right? It's like, if you have the secret agent spy who's got like a license to kill and maybe they had to do bad things.

Ian's becoming best friends with this human gal who can tell when people are lying to her. Her name is Verity. So of course they become best friends. So yeah, it's super fun. The art's really lovely. It's really cool. There's a moment where Loki is able to wield Mjolnir because of big crossover bullshit. And it's really sad. It's so sad. It actually demonstrates that this truly heroic version of Loki would like, suck.

It's great now. I do recognize that there's a bit of heavy lore so if you start agent of Asgard you may be a little bit confused so then you want to go back and you're gonna want to read the 2013 run of young Avengers written by Karen Gillan and that's where we meet kid Loki who well We don't meet kid Loki there kid Loki actually showed up in a previous run of journey into mystery And that's how

we get aloki who is truly kid look at the locking young investors actually is at the original kid looky it's actually the original looky who's taken over kid looky's body by threatening to unleash the powers of the nightmare demon but obviously it's actually not really

Who'd you set this up cuz that Loki is truly gone? if you want to know how that Loki died you need to go into before journey into mystery into the original like Ragnarok run of the Thor comics and because much like Mythological Loki there's not one easy fucking way for me to explain goddess of stories Loki to you

DJ (01:22:46.334)

standing gotta love it that's also just comics for you fellas

That is also just non-indie comics for you fellas.

Yeah, I was about to specify, I was like, and vegetables are not like that.

No, Invincible

like side stories that are important to the main story sure but like you could read the main story without worrying about the side stories i'll tell you that much

Darien (01:23:15.052)

Robert, where can people find you on the internet?

Hey, so can find me on the internet. Let's see. What do I do on the internet? I make a podcast with our friend Charlie. It's called the bits. It is a Steven Universe free watch and analysis podcast uploads every Friday. Darien and DJ hold the record for the longest episode. And the drunkest episode. That was unintentionally so, but it was it's a very fun episode. And now we're here.

And the drunkest episode.

Darien (01:23:40.75)

how much that box was.

DJ (01:23:45.803)

Now we're plowing through season two where Darien will be a guest again at some point I think you called like two episodes a season

Yeah, I want the answer and Keystone Motel. I just want to come on for all of the Sapphire garnet lore or Sapphire Ruby lore

Yeah. Fair enough. I also do this thing called the Damn Meme page, which is this Instagram account that posts a bunch of memes in regards to all, well, I say all, not all, but all the Percy Jackson podcasters. There are too many. Every time I look up, there's like 30 or 40 now, dude. It's crazy. It's a popular sphere.

Congratulations to anyone who's doing it now. It's crazy. But that is damning page damn spell D-A-M. It's also threads, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and blue sky.

I was blessed, guys. Is worth our time, or is it just gonna be another blip?

DJ (01:24:43.882)

It's fun so far. It's like Twitter in the old days before he who must not be named bought it. Fair enough. And I also started my venture into a YouTube channel.

Yeah!

Right now I am doing, at the time of recording, I'm releasing a weekly series called Percy Jackson One Year Later, where we, me and a guest provide commentary and go through each episode one year later, and then it's just gonna be like, hey, was this show good or was it not? Who knows, who cares? I care, you care.

And then I got a bunch of more ideas, but you know, I'm committed to this a part series who told who told it? I want to know who told me it was a good idea to release a series when I have ADHD. know who told me? Me, me.

By everyone else telling you the altar no yourself every time

DJ (01:25:35.136)

It's been wonderful for me. That's where you can find me on internet.

Did you want to say anything else about Loki? I think Loki not good, Robert. think Loki not good. Loki fun.

looking good. He's fun.

DJ (01:25:47.074)

loki's loki loki not even complicated loki just asshole he's an asshole and so it's like it makes sense why people use him

So he's fun.

Darien (01:25:59.19)

Robert, thank you so much for joining us. We missed having you on. It's always a pleasure.

And then, you guys are going to see me in three months. Hell yeah. This is going to be exciting.

Yes, like physically like you're gonna be in my house. my god I was trying to figure out like what are we doing in three months that Robert's gonna be on the show for we haven't even Yeah, cuz you'll kind of be Yeah Yes, it's gonna be so fun. I'm so excited to have you actually here. Okay, and then dear listeners We will be back in your ears. For the last episode of our season on Norse mythology I think this episode season has only gone the longest but also definitely has the most episodes

I'll need to double check for sure, but goodness me we're back in your ears on Tuesday January 28th for episode 100 to talk about Odin and until then

Last Tuesday of January, episode 100. God, you are racking it up. Don't be like Zeus. Do not be like Zeus.

Darien (01:27:02.23)

And until then, don't be like Zeus.

Darien (01:27:08.086)

Muses of Mythology is created and hosted by Darren and DJ Smart. It's edited by Darren Smart. The show is produced by Darren and DJ Smart as well as

Tim O'Connor. The Crystal Conman. Nicholas Miller. Our music is Athens Festival by Martin Haing. And our cover art is by Audrey Miller. You can find her on Instagram at Bombshell Nutshell Art.

Want more Muses of Mythology? Support the show on Patreon. Just one dollar gets you exclusive bonus content. Get more at patreon.com forward slash Muses of Mythology.

You can also support the show by leaving a review at love the podcast.com forward slash muses of mythology or tell a friend why you love the show.

Don't forget to check out all of our episodes and episode transcripts at musesofmythology.com.

DJ (01:27:49.592)

Thanks for listening.